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What do we think?? Joss self-identifies as an "angry atheist" (I love that guy), but the issue is entirely more ambiguous in the series itself...

As Buffy says in Conversations with Dead People "the jury's still out" on God's existence... The show also mentions her being in "heaven," but it's unclear whether that's "heaven" in a religious sense, or just a peaceful heavenly place or dimension or whatever. One DVD commentary Drew Goddard (or someone) says that although the show is about morality, it is never a morality imposed from any higher power - it is a morality that comes from within the characters themselves, which would indicate a more "humanist" philosophy than a religious one.. I've always been really impressed with that about this show and find it really inspirational.

But Does the existence of a "hell" indicate the existence of a God in the 'verse? Or is HELLmouth just the easiest way for humans to understand or describe what the thing is? How do demons fit in? How about the power of the cross/holy water/etc on vampires?

Most of the time the show makes no mention of it, and when it does it's soo vague..

Just something I ponder now and again!

I'm a non-religious person but I'm NOT an atheist, I just don't care about religion at all. Still, pretty much all I'd have to say about religion would turn into a rant.

Just a few words on the vampires: I always thought it's kinda ridiculous that vampires in the Buffyverse are afraid of crosses and holy water, that idea is so Western-World-centered. Especially after S7 it doesn't make sense, because they make it clear that vampires originated a long long long time before Jesus. It's definitely not like in Bram Stoker's Dracula where Dracula became a vampire because he renounced god and all.
It just makes me wonder whether vampires in the Buffyverse are damned by religious ideas in general - are they also afraid of David Stars, Buddha Figures, Islamic Moons or Vishnu Statues?!

I think the Buffyverse is not religious in a Jehova-sense, it's just all about dimensions. It doesn't answer the question which Hell dimension lies under the Hellmouth, but maybe there are different kinds of dimensions - the kinds were demons live and the kinds where dead souls move onto.

I hope so. I certainly am.

Full Disclosure: Christian

Here is a very interesting link on the subject from a view from the outside: Buffy as Theologian of the Year 2002. The source is NOT a screaming right-wing fundy magazine. Much more to the left on the Christian spectrum. Yes, there is such a thing.

I personally am glad that for most of the series, Joss was pretty ambiguous about religion; though I did love some of his lines like "Note to self: Religion Freaky". He (Joss) doesn't do religious characters and plotlines very well, because it is not his strength. Nothing more or less, as far as I am concerned.

Please, please, please let's not make this a flame war. I have gotten ganged up upon before when even mentioning religion. I'd love the debate, but leave the vitriol at home. Thanks,

Tom

If no one else wants to take a stab at this, I will.

JW is not only an "angry atheist," but also, by his own admission, an exististentialist. He is also a very well-versed and well-read angry atheist existentialist. That makes all the difference in the world.

He seems to understand some of the roles that faith (the concept, not the character) plays in humanity. He understands faith as cultural mirror, as history, as mythology, and as a way some use it to explain the unexplainable. In these arenas, his writing is spot on perfect.

For instance, in Giles' first exposition scene in the library, he basically rephrases the Genesis origin stories. This is brilliant , because without inherent knowledge of the Genesis "myths", it would be impossible to use them or compare and contrast them.



The Harvest

JW is a keen observer of faith and religion. He is not very good at portrayal of faithful or religious characters or plot lines because he is coming at it from the wrong direction; he is an observer of faith, not an inhabitant of faith.

Faith and religion are one of the few areas where BtVS has a very poor understanding or relationship with character. Another one is race, but I will leave that for another time.

Tom

Joss blows my mind.

I love your response, Tom. I almost feel like I need to mull it over some more...

And yeah, I've heard a lot of religious viewers are disappointed in how religious characters are portrayed on Joss's shows (I'm just starting to watch Firefly and I've heard the missionary guy on that show is one of the more problematized religious characters... I'll have to see what I think after I've seen some more episodes!) I guess that is because Joss would be coming from the wrong place in trying to write a religious character as a religious person would have that character be (gah, if that makes any sense)... I guess it's difficult to totally displace your own feelings about something as essential as that to write a satisfactory character or one who does justice to the viewers who actually are religious... I wonder what the other writers' views are and if they purposely tried to stay away from any such study of character and religion as you mentioned... Maybe it would open a can of worms that they didn't want to get into on Buffy..

It is strange on a show that's so much about character that this issue is one that's kind of avoided, because religion or beliefs (or lack of) is such an essential part of who a person is...

And oooh about the race bit - I'll be interested to hear your ideas about that!