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| Writer: | Douglas Petrie and Jane Espenson |
| Director: | Marita Grabiak |
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"End of Days" is not at all awful and is certainly watchable, but it's also quite a disappointment. There's no other way to say it. We're at the end of what's my favorite television show and we have to sit through a bunch of unwieldy exposition about an overly convenient plot device thrown into the story at the last second? Come on guys! You're better than this! Remember in my review of "Empty Places" [7x19] how I related the end of the show to a flickering candle? Well, the candle's getting dim again.
This is a plot-heavy episode with a falsely billed epic title. One particular scene really sticks in my mind when I think about it: Willow and Giles doing booooring research on the scythe. It's a whole lot of meandering, exposition, and last-minute revelations that really cheapen the stakes of everything going on. And that's how I feel about the episode as a whole. Now with that said, there's still a handful of quality scenes worth cheering about that still give the episode a sense of purpose and quality.
The scythe itself represents a mistake on the part of the writing staff. When Buffy tells us that this scythe is all they have going for them, I can only respond with "huh?" The timing and appearance of the scythe is incredibly contrived and forced. When the writers throw in a plot device and/or item specifically meant to get the protagonist out of a tricky situation, something's definitely gone wrong. Although I'm a fan of how the scythe is used as a metaphor in "Chosen" [7x22], it doesn't wash away how it reeks of convenience and lazy plotting here.
A conversation between Buffy and Xander represents another problem that shows up in "End of Days." How did things so quickly become alright between Buffy, Willow, Xander, and the rest of the group? I'd expect a lot more hostility there despite Faith's failed mission. Buffy makes jokes to Xander and gives him a speech about how much she needs him, yet it all just feels off to me. Earlier Willow cracks a silly joke that Buffy smiles to. I don't feel like these reactions have been earned after what just happened. It's like the writers ran out of time and have jumped right into oh-shit-the-series-is-almost-over mode. It just doesn't feel right to me. One bit of self reflection we get is from Willow in terms of whether she can perform magic under pressure, but even this is ground that was already covered in "Get it Done" [7x15].
The primary problem of the episode is really solidified by the long-winded expository scene between Buffy and the Guardian in the Pagan Temple. For one, why does Buffy instantly trust this lady with the scythe? Secondly, what's with all the nonsense about all the ancient groups watching other ancient groups? Buffy's confusion is palpable. Why only now is all this information coming to light? It's actually kind of amazing that in all that talking, we didn't learn anything relevant. She talked a lot and confirmed that the Shadow Men eventually formed the Watcher's Council, but beyond that interesting tidbit it pretty much felt like a lot of filler to me. This is the second to last episode of a great show! It pains me to have any moment of screen time wasted like it is in several places here in "End of Days."
Now, fortunately, there are several things the episode does right. One scene that rubs off as much more successful is between Buffy and Faith. Buffy correctly informs Faith that the deaths the group incurred were not her fault. Faith also gets introspective and finally begins to understand Buffy and her burden. It's easy to be jealous or criticize someone from the outside, but it's not so easy when you're in their shoes and have to do that job. Even though Faith had all those people supporting her, she felt alone as ever before. Faith then tells Buffy, "and that's you. Every day." Buffy solemnly responds, "I love my friends. I'm very grateful for them. But that's the price of being a slayer."
Another scene that works for me is the reunion of Buffy and Spike after their special evening together in "Touched" [7x20]. After some fun word play between them and a clear avoidance of discussing what they shared the other night, Buffy insists they discuss it. Spike's reaction is nothing short of amazing. He says, very rawly, "Last night was... God, I'm such a jerk. I can't do this ... it was the best night of my life. If you poke fun at me, you bloody well better well use that [scythe] 'cause I couldn't bear it. It may not mean that much to you but-" Buffy jumps in and whispers, "I just told you it did." Spike, not completely convinced that she was there with him yet, directly asks her "Yeah, I hear you say it but- I've lived for soddin' ever, Buffy. I've done everything. I've done things with you I can't spell. But I've never been close to anyone, least of all you. Until last night. All I did was hold you, watch you sleep, and it was the best night of my life. So yeah, I'm terrified. ... Were you there with me?" Buffy honestly says, "I was."
When Spike pries a little further to figure out what this means for them, Buffy has a very human response: "I don't know." Some may feel this comment is a cop-out, but I personally feel it is the most honest response that Buffy could have given. But what is clear is that the two of them definitely love each other. It's what they do next about it that is left open-ended as the series rolls to a close. What a journey for both Buffy and Spike.
Although it's hard to pick a favorite scene in the episode between the stand-outs, I might have to pick Andrew and Anya at the hospital. We sadly haven't seen much attention devoted to Anya's jouney to find herself in the aftermath of the brilliant "Selfless" [7x05], but this conversation directly picks up that thread. Although it's not as much as I had hoped for, I'm still thrilled we got closure to this character thread -- it's more than most shows would give us. Andrew asks the very pertinent question of why Anya doesn't just leave town and run away. What's different?
Anya points out that she took off before ("Graduation Day Pt. 1" [3x21]). What's changed is that "Well, I guess I was kinda new to being around humans before. But now I've seen a lot more, gotten to know people, seen what they're capable of and I guess I just realized how amazingly screwed up they all are. I mean, really, really screwed up in a monumental fashion. ... And they have no purpose that unites them so they just drift around blundering through life until they die, which they know is coming yet every single one of them is surprised when it happens to them. They're incapable of thinking about what they want beyond the moment. They kill each other, which is clearly insane, and yet here's the thing. When it's something that really matters, they fight. I mean, they're lame morons for fighting but they do. They never quit. So I guess I will keep fighting too."
Sometimes Anya really surprises me with how insightful and touching she can be. It's cool to see Andrew continuing that self reflection that awoke in him after "Storyteller" [7x16]. And then... there's the wheelchair fight. This is what Whedon shows do best: have a genuinely serious moment, and then follow it up with a hefty chuckle to help sink in that warm feeling and connection to the characters. Wonderful.
So that all pretty much sums up what "End of Days" is about. It's a plot-heavy outing that does boast a few great character scenes, but overall isn't sure of what it's trying to do. As the penultimate episode of the entire series, it's extremely lacking. The last thing I wanted is long-winded exposition scenes this close to the end. Thankfully Buffy, Spike, Faith, and Andrew save this one and make it a worthwhile watch. "Touched" [7x20] aside, I just expected more out of the final group of episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Fortunately, "Chosen" [7x22] gives us a fairly satisfying conclusion to it all, flaws and all.
| - | Minor Pros/Cons (+/-) |
| Pros: | |
| + | The post-explosion intro scene was well done. |
| + | Andrew drinking Capri Sun. |
| + | Buffy dropping down into the cave with the scythe and kicking a lot of ass in front of a bunch of injured potentials. |
| + | Buffy kicking the door to the Pagan Temple down. |
| + | Buffy's fight with Caleb is pretty fun to watch, although the editing is a little sloppy in a couple places. |
| + | Angel! It's great to see Angel make an appearance again. It's also great to have him simply enjoy the show of Caleb vs Buffy. It's almost like the ghost of Mal (Firefly) is coming to beat up Buffy because his show got cancelled and hers didn't. |
| Cons: | |
| - | What the hell was Caleb doing down in the Pagan Temple? Was there another entrance somewhere? Was he just hanging out sipping on martinis while Buffy and the Guardian were having that chat? |
| - | Dawn tasering Xander in the middle of the highway? There had to be a better way to handle that. |
| - | Why did Buffy need to kiss Angel? Wouldn't a warm hug suffice? I know Whedon's trying to pander to all the various fans, but after what her and Spike have shared ever so recently, I don't think an insta-kiss for Angel was really appropiate. Then again, they had to leave us 'wondering' about whether Spike will go into a murderous rage after seeing them kiss! Sigh. At least Whedon doesn't stoop as low as actually persuing that obviously stupid route in "Chosen" [7x22]. |
| - | Quotes |
| CALEB: | So you found it. Not impressed. 'Cause the question now, girlie-girl, is can you pry it from solid rock before I come over there and- |
| : | (Buffy easily pulls the weapon out of the rock.) |
| CALEB: | ...darn. |
| WILLOW: | So it's true. Scythe matters. |
| GILES: | And ignoring that... |
| ANYA: | Yep. Many of these girls will die. Slaughterhouse is what it is. |
| GIRL: | What? |
| ANYA: | Oh, trying to talk will just kill you sooner. |
| XANDER: | I never said that you were going to die. I implied that you were going to die. It's totally different. |
| BUFFY: | Yeah, okay. Sure. |
| XANDER: | Besides, if you die, I'll just bring you back to life. That's what I do. |
| DAWN: | Xander, my crossbow is not out here. I told you, I don't leave crossbows around all willy-nilly. Not since that time with Miss Kitty Fantastico. |
| BUFFY: | But you're right. I mean, I guess everyone's alone. But being a slayer? There's a burden we can't share. |
| FAITH: | And no one else can feel it. Thank God we're hot chicks with superpowers. |
| BUFFY: | Takes the edge off. |
| FAITH: | Comforting. |
| BUFFY: | Mm-hmm. |
| SPIKE: | Honey, you're home. |
| BUFFY: | Yeah. |
| SPIKE: | And you did it. Fulfilled your mission, found the Holy Grail, or the holy hand grenade or whatever the hell that is. |
| SPIKE: | Oh, yeah. Another solo mission, of course. |
| BUFFY: | Yeah, it is. |
| SPIKE: | That's fine. You don't have to get shirty about it. |
| BUFFY: | I'm not shirty! And what is shirty? That's not even a word. |
| BUFFY: | You're a dope! |
| SPIKE: | I'm a what? |
| BUFFY: | You're a dope and a bonehead and you're shirty! |
| ANDREW: | Oh, this one has oxygen tanks. |
| ANYA: | They'd only be useful if something big was attacking, and then we could shove one down their throat and blow 'em up like Roy Scheider did with that shark in Jaws. |
| ANDREW: | You are the perfect woman! |
| ANYA: | I've often thought so. |
| GUARDIAN: | I'm sorry. What's your name? |
| BUFFY: | Buffy. |
| GUARDIAN: | No, really. |
| CALEB: | I'm sorry, but I didn't catch that last part on account of her neck snappin' and all. Did she say the end is near? Or here? |
| - | Score | Learn about the Grading Scale |
| 72/100 |
C+ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ |
The main plot is likely problematic and/or hokey, but sharp humor and/or character development and relevance keep it afloat. A couple moments may be over-the-top in a bad way.
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| - | Screencaps |
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Comments (61)
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| 1. | EmmaOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 12:56amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I loved Dawn tasering Xander - okay, maybe it isn't a great idea blogically, but it cool dammit! Agree with your love for the Hospital scene. |
| 2. | DarthMarionOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 4:03amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| The end is near, I can believe that there's just one episode left for you to review! When did you start this site? 143 episodes reviewed...Whaoh! I was waiting for this one, since my feelings for End of days are kinda messy. I used to hate, hate!, this ep. Mostly because of the last scene. I didn't even care for the rest of the episode because the end always made me so angry! What a lack of respect for the characters of Buffy et Angel and their journey!! That kiss is just there to make Bangel fans happy, like if nothing happened since the end of season 3! And the cheap music? The cheap acting of David? Just ridiculous and painful. However, finally with time, it's an ep I really enjoy now. It's...pleasant in some way, quiet, with really good characters moments... If I forget the last scene, I love this episode. From the cool teaser sequence, to the wonderful character moments. I loved Buffy and Faith, Buffy and Spike,Buffy and Xander and the way it shows an little welcomed developpment for Buffy, who starts to be more open thanks to the events of Touched. I particurlarly like this line from Buffy "the good guys are not known for their communication skills." The girl made a lot of progress in this ep, the sharing isn't perfectly complete (that's for next episode) but, I like the way it finally focuses on the scoobies again. That's why the plot doesn't bother me much. For example, the research scene, I could'nt care much about the explanations, I was just so nostalgic, happy, and sad at the same time to see a good old research scene again. And to see Giles at what he's best, on contrast to his struggle to find a place lately. Maybe the conversation between Buffy sounded a little bit off, but I really liked it. Again, nice scooby moment with Dawn and Xander (before he makes her sleep anyway). About, the quick forgiveness, you made a good point. It's the end and the scoobies should be on good termes again....so let's them be on good terms again! Yay! And what? That's just it? Come on Whedon team? Why the pain in Empty places? Nice episode which follows well Touched about the power of intimacy, that i really enjoy. Why do I enjoy it? It has a lot to do with my own state of nostalgia...in itself, that's not enough like you said for the 21st episode of the last season. That's surely the weakest 21st episode of the show (with Primeval) |
| 3. | UrsusOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 6:03amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Agreed. The majority of the episode is nothing but thin plot contrivance, saved only be a few touching moments. The magic scythe, the Pagan Temple and the women watchers are seem like something out of a bad Dungeons and Dragons novel. I actually thought the Anya-found-humanity speech was a little over the top, but did love the wheelchair fight. Angel did not need to come back, nor did Buffy need to French kiss him. What a hussy, after everything Spike said to her. |
| 4. | buffyholicOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 6:38amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I agree with your review, this episode leaves much to be desired. Not my favourite either. But I am so glad you pointed out Buffy being on good terms with all of them so suddenly because it bugs me a bit too. I don“t know, maybe I was expecting an apology from everyone, although I love, love the talk between Faith and Buffy and the wheelchair fight.
Like you said, messy episode but watchable. |
| 5. | SusanOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 8:13amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| So happy to see a great new review. You really nailed this episode and put into words the feelings I have about what is wrong. The arrival of Angel at the right place at just the right time is very "cheesy" in my opinion as is David's acting. He simply smirks throughout the scene and doesn't seem at all in character to me. I'm trying to remember what was happening on "Angel" at this time. It would be the end of Season 4 and I haven't watched it in a long time. But I would like to know how his visit to Buffy, the kiss, and what he says to her fits in with the "Angel" storyline.
On the major plus side is the whole scene between Buffy and Spike and the beautiful words that he says to Buffy. The interaction between those two characters here is really first-rate, worth seeing over again, and definitely not "cheesy". By the way, how many wonderful speeches or soliloqueys has Spike had in this series? One after another in my opinion. His scenes just stand out. I wonder how much of that is because of the actor. If someone other than James Marsters had played Spike, would his character have been as interesting and memorable? |
| 6. | Darth BunnyOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 9:28amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Susan: Angel at the end of season 4 saved the world from Jasmine and he "saved" his son by wiping away his memory and giving him to another family. He accomplished this feat of magic and found out about Buffy's fight when he agreed to Wolfram and Hart's offer to be their new CEO. Long story short, Angel just defeated a big bad and agreed to work for another big bad in exchange for his son's life. Overall, not sure if he has a right to smirk, especially since he's never seen Caleb in action. Also the last time Angel faced the First Angel almost died. I honestly don't know where his confidence in Buffy comes from. A large part of Buffy's success was in getting outstanding actors. Watch the original pilot without Alyson as Willow for example, and this point should be obvious. If Buffy was a strong show it was because great writing and great acting came together. Both needed to be there, which is partly why season 7 was a let down. The actors were doing their best to hold everything up, but the weak plot could not be ignored. |
| 7. | LeeluOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 10:18amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I never found the kiss between Angel and Buffy out of place. They still love each other, and it's quite possible they were never going to see each other again. Just because she has some confusing feelings for Spike now doesn't mean she no longer has feelings for Angel. I also don't fee that Angel was particularly played out of character. And personally, I love it when he acts petty and childish. It's amusing. Much more so than when he's being brooding and boring. And yes, the scythe was a plot contrivance, but it's admittedly so, by Whedon himself. Plot contrivance or not, it doesn't change the fact that they managed some nifty stuff with it. As for the relationship mending between the Scoobies, I just assume they all figured: Fuck it, we are all probably about to die. There's no point in wasting what little time we most likely have left together finding or being awkward or whatever. Now, I'm not saying that I think there isn't anything wrong with the last chunk of episodes, because they are far from perfect. But they still managed to entertain, and culminate in a pretty nifty finale. |
| 8. | DarthMarionOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 12:32pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| There could have been a kiss, but not like that. If you still have feelings for your ex, that's not a reason for kissing him the second you see him. Especially when you didn't really see him for 4 years, they don't know each other anymore. Especially when there's a Cordy and a Spike out there. There could have been a kiss, but not just where and how it is. It would even have been better for Bangel fans, because it could have been a meaningful kiss...What was the point to the kiss we saw on screen? I agree with you, Angel was not THAT out of character however. The petty part was quite perfect. It's just when he arrives, the first shot of him...ew! |
| 9. | KyarorinOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 1:22pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I am in complete agreement about the Buffy and Angel kiss. Especially since in season 3 of AtS they seemed to give Angel closure over his feelings with Buffy. And while it didn't seem right for Buffy to be kissing Angel, it seemed even more out of place for Angel to be kissing Buffy, considering what just happened with the person he is actually in love with. It's as though they ignored all the growth that took place on AtS to satisfy the desires of a few fans. And, I'm sorry, but attempting to appeal to the majority of viewers is something that's normally done by lesser shows than this, for good reason. It doesn't work and usually doesn't make sense. Especially for a show that's already proven to put the integrity of the characters/story above the immediate fantasies of the viewers. |
| 10. | KateOct 9, 2009 (Fri) @ 4:43pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Thank you for posting another review so quickly! I guess that you're either looking forward to doing your proposed 'whole show review' or not.
I think the buffy/angel kiss was what they would do. This series, Spike and Buffy were much better than Buffy/Angel's relationship, but they romance between them never seems to go, does it? They did the same 'comfort' kissing in 'Forever' and maybe that's what this was about. I think Joss whedon was leaving doors open for Buffy's relationships with Spike and Angel. And in Chosen, remember, she said it was just 'hello'. Well, they both used to kiss a lot as a 'hello'. Then again, completly out of character for both. Oh well. |
| 11. | CecilyOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 12:50amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| A very special day? Your birthday? Christmas? 13 year anniversary of when Buffy started? Can you at least give a hint? |
| 12. | PictorOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 2:20amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Smart money on the date of special day is the 4yr anniversary of the this site, I think. :P |
| 13. | EnderOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 6:31amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I don't know, I wasn't terribly happy that everything was cool straight away between Buffy and the Scoobies straight away, but then again, I think a lot of people miss the point. The scoobies never hated Buffy, nor she them, they simply pointed out that she had lost the faith of the army (the potentials) and could no longer lead them. And they thought she was making the wrong call with taking everyone back to the scene of the slaughter. And they weren't wrong.
While Buffy herself clearly did need to go back, bringing everyone else would have been a disaster. She gets the scythe by basically just running away from Caleb. If the whole group had been there, they may not have got the scythe at all, and there certainly would have been a lot more deaths. So I don't see that the scoobies need to apologise to Buffy, and I think Buffy realises her original plan would not have worked so I don't think she feels a lot of resentment. I realise a lot of fans miss the one big lovefest that has, on occassion, been the scoobies, but that wouldn't have been true to the characters. Ever since the end of Season 4, the scoobies were never that close again. The bonds of the group started to become looser in Season 4, and they never really tightened up again. Buffy was closer to Dawn in Season Five, and then 6 and 7 it was Spike. And I see this as being true to the character evolution on the show. This started out being a response to the quick forgiveness thing, but I didn't see that much needed forgiveness so I'm OK with it, though I would have liked them to mention it. Also, agree with everyone about the Angel kiss. Completely out of character for both of them. Clearly the Buffy writers throwing a bone to the Bangel fans, considering the events of the finale. |
| 14. | LyvOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 10:33amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Loved the review and agree with most of it. After the wonderful Touched it's a shame that character has to be sacrificed for the most part. Couple of points:
- Love the continuity of Spike saying it was the 'best night of his life' because of course in Fool For Love he claimed the best night of his life was killing a Slayer. - The Faith/Buffy scene rocked and my favourite line was probably when Faith touches the Scythe and says "it feels like... like it's mine. I guess that means it's yours". Could have made her look like she was whining but the delivery is spot on. - I'm still confused as to the links between this and CWDP. Was that actually Joyce speaking to Dawn, and if it was did Buffy trying to get Dawn to safety really count as betrayal? If Joyce was The First then I suppose you could say that the result of her appearing of Joyce was what happened in Empty Places when Dawn turns against Buffy but the significance of 'Buffy won't pick you, she won't choose you' doesn't really make and sense then (unless Dawn is angry because she wasn't a potential, which seems pretty silly even for a teen). - That last point reminded me about the closure for Miss Kitty Fantastico. Heh. |
| 15. | DarthMarionOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 11:49amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Oh Yeah, that was so good, Miss Kitty Fantastico! ^^ |
| 16. | Blue FanOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 7:23pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| A fantastic review again, Mikejer! I just want to say that I have the same problem that Lyv has.
In CWDP, who was talking to Dawn? Was it the First? There was another appearence that was even more difficult to figure out. At the middle of the season, when Buffy was dreaming and her mum tells her that she needs to sleep in order to defeat the Uvervamp, was it Joyce really or the First? Because in this case, she was really helping Buffy and not playing the usual First Evil's manipulation. As usual, I apologyse for my terrible English! |
| 17. | SamOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 7:54pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| 1. Mike, since the Jewish day of atonement passed, I've gotten reflective and I want to apologize again for the unnecessary attack I left in the "After Life" thread. I'm actually in fundamental agreement with you about most aspects of the show; it's just that the few times I've disagreed with you, I practically blew a gasket and posted without thinking first. In short, a big thank you for doing this site. I'd have a lot more free time on my hands if it wasn't for this place. ;)
2. I truly do not understand why people are making such a big deal over the kiss and trying to please Bangel fans. Spike fans are the reason that Spike wasn't killed off after "What's My Line, Part 2", and they are also at least part of the reason that he became a regular in Season 4. This show's legion of loyal fans is also the reason why Faith & Oz weren't killed off. In addition to writing incredible dialogue and characters, Whedon & Co. have been known to check out fan feedback from time to time and incorporate their desires into the show. In a way, this show was almost interactive. |
| 18. | MikeJerOct 10, 2009 (Sat) @ 10:08pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @Blue Fan: The writers have stated that the First was talking to Dawn in CWDP. Also, your English is vastly superior to many native English speakers, so don't worry about it. @Sam: Thanks for the kind words! Don't worry about getting heated every now and then -- we all do it. I only ask that people actually, you know, read my review before ranting off on their pre-existing point of view. :) |
| 19. | wytchcroftOct 11, 2009 (Sun) @ 10:27amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Great review - agree completely. |
| 20. | CecilyOct 12, 2009 (Mon) @ 11:28pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| 4 year anniversary...ooh, that's TODAY! (well, in New Zealand time) |
| 21. | AnneOct 15, 2009 (Thu) @ 4:58pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I think that the "romance" between Angel & Cordelia is what was forced and OOC. It just seemed like a way for the writers to distance the two shows. Angel had to be told that he had feelings for Cordy. He got angry with Fred for saying they had "kyrumption" (which they didn't since it was a boss/employee teacher/student thing and not two warriors/leaders) WIIT was played for comedy. She left to have sex with Groo for weeks without a second thought to wanting Angel. Having Angel compare his height to Groo was just idiotic. She let herself believe that she was a "Higher Being" instead of meeting Angel. They made her part demon (with nothing demonic about it) and cut and dyed her hair blond. He asked her "Were we in love?" and not "Did you love me?" as if he didn't know what he felt and would decide depending on her answer. He didn't know she was posessed for MONTHS. He just assumed that she had matured and not that there was an evil Hell Goddess in her body. I just think he was lonely and confused a friendship with an attractive female with "love".
Buffy's relationship with Spike was always organic and believable. I completely bought that Angel would kiss Buffy again. When they did see each other over those four years it was always very passionate or heated. They made love all day in IWRY and he gave up his humanity for her, she still acted like his girlfriend and he felt so badly for yelling at her in Sanctuary that he drove two hours to apologize and she was morose in her dorm room over their fight instead of visiting Riley in TYF, they kissed (he was surprised that kissing her could still affect him so deeply) and spent the entire night talking and in each other's embrace in Forever, and had their offscreen rendevous in BtVS S6/AtS S3 which Buffy called "intense". Angel didn't break up with Buffy because he didn't love her. He did it because of how much he loved and wanted her. "When we're apart it's easier. It hurts. Every day. But I deal with the hurt. and now you're right here. Close enough that I can reach out and...it's more than confusing. It's unbearable." It makes sense that seeing her again would make him smile and he would love getting to see her fight again. Why would he doubt her abilities? He knows that she is stronger than him and can take him in a fight. Of course he would believe she would be able to kick Caleb's butt. |
| 22. | AnneOct 15, 2009 (Thu) @ 5:06pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| It was nice that Faith FINALLY realized how hard Buffy has it. That Buffy feels as alone (more so) than Faith does. She realized that Buffy does not have an easy life and was not handed things. Buffy has to deal with a lot of responsibility and stress and isolation and burdens.
I bought everyone sweeping EP under the rug. It is what the Scooby Gang does. They never deal with their issues with each other. And Buffy always forgave them for every single betrayal and group gang-up. I really loved that scene between the FE/Buffy & Caleb. The scene between Buffy & Spike was definitley my favorite. I love Spuffy! |
| 23. | LeeluOct 15, 2009 (Thu) @ 11:25pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @Anne: Another thing to bolster the thought that he had much more love for Buffy than Cordy, and was still just as in love with Buffy as ever, was when during the scene (please forgive me for not remembering which episode or season XS) where, though it ended up being just a fantasy, he and Cordelia had sex--when he climaxed, he called out Buffy's name. |
| 24. | JeremyOct 18, 2009 (Sun) @ 6:02amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I just LOVED that ending comment with The First and Spike watching Buffy and Angel. The First is so damn amazing because it can play as either an extreme nemesis for Buffy and the gang and freak the hell out of them (like in Showdown) but can then come back and have civilized conversations with them. Just shows how complex it is as a villain.
Also I think I can put all of the bad (well terrible) plot problems such as the scythe, Caleb and the big finale power sharing down to a slower, much more character focused season rather than plot focused. While it still got in alot more plot movement than 6, it got nowhere near 5 and in this season it served to create alot of tension which couldn't be lived up to in such a short finale of episodes. Still I wouldn't give up ANY of the character centered stand-alones because this season had some of the BEST in the series. Help, Selfless, Him, Storyteller, CWDP, Lies My Parents Told Me and First Date worked so well in my opinion because the series has really reached a place where it knows what works and what doesn't. Stand-alones used to be cringe-worthy-now they are kickass and have matured to 100% what I think Joss wants them to be. Long story short I think the season was pretty perfect. Since I don't really have a favourite season (5 was too depressing, sorry) yet I think I'm gonna give that title to this one. May not have had the most well planned plotline but damn it was fun to watch. |
| 25. | TashOct 20, 2009 (Tue) @ 3:50amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I agree with others on Buffy kissing Angel being out of character for both of them. Although Buffy has been callous with Spike's feelings in the past - too much has happened between them now for her to just wave all that aside within the first 5 seconds of seeing Angel again and passionately kiss him.
And after all of what AtS had done to make Angel into so much more than just a Buffy love interest, to just go back to basics and pander to Bangel fans that needed to realise that the show had left them behind years ago. When it comes to the Spuffy or Bangel debate, to me it's easy. I just have to think about which 'Firsts' I like the best. The First Kiss I enjoy watching more, Spuffy comes out tops each and every time. And yes, I am including the kiss in 'Something Blue' which was funny, unexpected and incredibly hot. And the proper first kiss in 'Once More With Feeling' which was not so unexpected, a wonderfully perfect ending to the episode. And incredibly hot. And when it comes to the First Sex, I am sometimes alittle bit disturbed that I'm more into the all out punching, smashing, antagonistic, and ultimately incredily hot sex that occurs between Spike and Buffy in 'Smashed'. On an aside, Mikejer, I am loving these reviews and I am putting off reading your 'Chosen' review because it's abit akin to having watched Chosen and knowing that that was it. (I am not lame AT ALL) |
| 26. | Blue FanOct 24, 2009 (Sat) @ 8:10pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Your reviews are always outstanding Mikejer! As I have previously commented on other post, they give us the possibility to see the series from a new and challenging perspective.
With that said, back to this episode. I agree with many people here that the kiss between Buffy and Angel was a bit out of character, specially because of what has happened since the end of season 3. Nevertheless, I don't have stronger complaints about this. However, I keep my opinion about Caleb. Altough I consider him a really scary villain, I feel a lack of background story. How come a human is that strong? And why nobody investigates about him? I find Caleb very similar in this aspect to Maggie Walsh and, to a lesser extente, to Mr Trick: they were amazing but never fully developed. And one more thing to ask related to your CONS. You ere asking what was Caleb doing down there in the Pagan Temple. I would also add what was Spike doing down there??? That said, I keep my opinion that I love S7 and the series as a whole! |
| 27. | AnneNov 4, 2009 (Wed) @ 12:09amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I love your reviews! You are always so smart, and awesome in answering them that I think....
I love you. |
| 28. | SunburnDec 2, 2009 (Wed) @ 3:49amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Ha! Great points about the Firsts, Tash. I think the kiss is awful, but I am starting to think that perhaps it wasn't so out of character for Buffy. After all, her age group is the most likely to be unfaithful, and theoretically she wasn't even in a relationship with Spike. I see it as a betrayal because I love what she had with Spike, but not necessarily out of character; what we've seen of her behaviour in romantic relationships suggests she can be just as ruthless and occasionally self-centred as the next person. Angel's smirk and general air of smug entitlement is pretty insufferable though. Boo, hiss, etc. |
| 29. | Nathan.TaurusJan 8, 2010 (Fri) @ 7:06pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Agree with your comment of how did Caleb get into the Pagan Temple from where the guardian woman came out of and also how in the hellmouth did Buffy, and especially Angel, not realise Spike was there. He had to come down the stairs also.
The hospital scene was funny, as was Dawn realising what Kennedy and her tongue stud meant....similar to Willow realising the meaning of the song, "I Touch Myself" in 'Lie to Me'. The guardian thinking Buffy was joking about her name. The First in the form of Buffy joking with Caleb over his attitude to merging was also good. But as this is the penultimate episode of the series and with the title it just didn't deliver like it should have. Still deserves an 80 in my book. |
| 30. | ElbieAug 11, 2010 (Wed) @ 8:34pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I'm going to disagree with the people crying out-of-character for Buffy and/or Angel: They have both gone through seriously trying and tragic times in their lives and it's very normal for people's emotions to go a little whack. When people unexpectedly see someone they love(d) or care(d) about, there's usually a great big hug, maybe some girly shrieking... For Buffy and Angel, a kiss seems about right. And I see it as just that - Buffy explained it perfectly. It was a very dramatic and emotional "hello" but I don't think it was Buffy being unfaithful to her relationship with Spike. Another point, in seasons one to three of BtVS, Buffy and Angel sort of found their life's purpose in each other. Buffy was all cute outfits and boys and stuff until she found something deeper and more meaningful to her mission in Angel. And ensouled Angel was all grumpy and moody before realizing that his un-life could hold meaning if he fought alongside the slayer. Their lives have kind of gone to shit lately and just as Spike gave Buffy a bit of confidence in Touched, Buffy and Angel give each other that purpose and the same feelings that they had in the first few seasons. |
| 31. | JasonSep 19, 2010 (Sun) @ 12:49pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| It's a sad thing to witness the collapse of a season. I actually enjoyed the first two thirds of S7. But then Caleb, and a hokey axe, some poor writing, characters acting out of character, and a dopey cliche-ridden First sank the ship. In this episode, for me, all these bad elements really came together. Well, Buffy, we'll always have S1-S6. |
| 32. | JamesOct 31, 2010 (Sun) @ 1:18pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Thought I'd share my pros and cons. Pros - I LOVE Caleb. Nathan Fillion plays him so well, not to mention for a big bad, he's given some of the show's best lines ("I didn't hear that on account of her neck snapping, did she say the end is near...or here?"). His women-hating sensibilities make him the perfect last big bad for Buffy, a show that has always been about female empowerment. - The fight scenes between Buffy and Caleb never fail to impress. This is an area where the show has got back on form after some truly awful fight scenes in Season 6 (most of them actually, including the slow, clunky one between Buffy and Willow). - Andrew/Anya's scene is brilliant. Although I object to having Andrew be a big part of season 6, let alone season 7. - SMG looks beautiful in this episode, and for most of Season 7 actually, whereas she began to look very old/mumsy in Seasons 5 & 6. Cons - I can't believe nobody mentioned the scene where Xander and Dawn are looking for the crossbow in the car. It's PAINFULLY unfunny, badly written and terribly acted. Xander's little quips about the eye are so clunky and it just doesn't work. Not to mention Dawn's hideous fake laughter and Xander saying "cyclops" (seriously is there some deeper meaning to cyclops which makes it funnier?). It's a case of bad acting/writing of a type of scene that the show used to do so well. Having said than, Anthony Steward Head is still the only actor in the show to ever laugh convincingly. - I agree, the way the Scoobs all smoosh back together straight away is ridiculous, and the scene with Willow and Giles researching is indeed boring. - The end of the episode. The reveal of Spike watching and the "that bitch" line. It felt like a mid-season episode end, where, given more time, the consequences of the Buffy/Spike Buffy/Angel relationships could have come to a head together. Angel could have reacted about Spuffy, fought with Spike, hell they all could have fought each other briefly... It could have been a really interesting/funny long scene, but obviously at this point they didn't have time. So you get random moment with no payoff. It was an ill-timed mislead suggesting Spike was almost going to turn his back on Buffy, go to the bad side or something equally uninteresting. - With that in mind, even when Angel came back, for what should have been his and Buffy's moment, there is still Spike. Their short, romantic reunion that fans had waited years to see was interlocked with an irrelevant and 'faux ominous' shot of Spike that was never picked up on afterwards. Another example of the writers obsession with Spike and how his presence had to be felt in almost every aspect of the show. Not short of sucking up screen time from/influencing scenes between Buffy and Xander/Willow/Giles/Faith, he had to now do it with Angel. - After Angel said "I missed watching this" what I expected and what should have happened was Buffy wailing on him in a spectacular one-sided fashion. This was her one last one on one fight, it was implied at that point Buffy was going to go to town on Caleb, but he just starts to beat on her again until she gets a lucky break. I would have even preferred for Angel to join her in smacking him down for a while and THEN letting her finish him off. It would have been nice to see them both in battle again. As it was Angel came back to save Buffy, then watch her get the crapped kicked out of her a little more, and then for her to get a lucky blow. - Why didn't they have the Close Your Eyes score music over the BAngel kiss? It would have been far more emotional and a far more fitting moment given its history in the show. - Why was SMG's stunt woman very obviously the one kissing David Boreanaz in one of the shots? Is kissing too dangerous for Sarah all of a sudden? |
| 33. | JohnJan 14, 2011 (Fri) @ 12:30amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I was really disappointed with how much weaker the Ubervamps began to get with this episode. Buffy murderizing them with the scythe I can buy, that makes perfect sense, but Kennedy, athletic normal human with training Kennedy, knocking one on the ground? I just don't buy it. I really, really wish they had made the Hellmouth filled with something other than Ubervamps; an army of ancient (but no stronger than normal) vampires or random demons would have served to give the First credible and dangerous minions without forcing horrific inconsistency in regards to Ubervamp strength. I actually liked the fact that the end of Empty Places and Buffy's exile was largely ignored; I tend to regard that as a completely OOC moment so I'm glad that they basically pretended it didn't happen in this episode. This close to the end of the series I would much rather see the Scoobies interacting as friends rather than falling apart at the seams for the fifteenth time. |
| 34. | vpvJan 15, 2011 (Sat) @ 2:26pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Doesn't anyone find it odd, that the woman in the pagan temple asks "No, really?", when Buffy tells her her name?
Is it perhaps the same as the first slayer's? Or is this explained somewhere? |
| 35. | DimitriJan 16, 2011 (Sun) @ 6:28amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| vpv , I think it's just for the fun of it. I mean, wouldn't you be like, what kind of name is Buffy? |
| 36. | vpvJan 22, 2011 (Sat) @ 12:21pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Yes, it's a weird name, but still.. I expected more :) |
| 37. | CoyoteBuffyFanJan 24, 2011 (Mon) @ 6:38pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| The beginning part with the Potentials is the only part that I like Kennedy in the whole season. Those girls needed a leader at that moment and she stepped up. Her problem before that is that she didn't know when she wasn't the smartest/toughest one in the room and to shut up and let other people lead. That's one of the traits of a good leader and non-annoying person.
When Buffy busted in to save those girls I always say a little "Hell yeah!" in my head and curse out all the stupid people who kicked her out. I have to say that Buffy was very gracious in coming back. I would have had a lot more resentment. She just let everyone off the hook. Kudos to her. My favorite part in the whole episode was Anya's speech about why she is staying and what she thinks of humans. (I wrote this before I read the review and see it is your favorite part too MikeJer!) So sad about what happens to her next episode but it was great to see her evolution. From running from the apocalypse to staying and fighting. Great scene (especially ending with the wheelchair fight). The moment between Buffy and Spike when they talk to each other about what happend in Touched is very sweet. But it takes away from it a little to know that she'll be kissing Angel just a little while later. I like Spike and Buffy together but I'll always believe that Angel is her one and only true love. She will love others, but never like she will love Angel. I totally buy the kiss between them. She isn't in a relationship with Spike, regardless of their feelings. And she knows she isn't going to have a relationship with Angel and in fact, she may never see him again. One more note since we aare just about near the end of Caleb -- I love Nathan Fillion. His character might have been one dimensional, but what a fabulous dimension it is because of him. |
| 38. | ConorApr 1, 2011 (Fri) @ 4:12pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Totally agree with you about the scythe and the Guardian lady, mikejer. Hello, covenient plot devices! I must have zoned out during the explanation as to what exactly the scythe is, because I still don't fully get it. And the Watchers who watch the Watchers idea was just so last minute and unnecessary that I can only groan when I hear the old woman's confusing explanation. All in all, pretty poorly handled.
As for the gang being best buddies once more, none of them know who's gonna survive the upcoming battle (if indeed any of them do), so it's best to let bygones be bygones. |
| 39. | ZarzMay 8, 2011 (Sun) @ 4:55pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| About the ongoing confusion about whether Joyce from CWDP is the First Evil or not: There has not been an instance in this show when the dead have communicated with people, except in ghost form, so there is no reason to think that Joyce suddenly has the ability to come down from Heaven. I'm fairly certain that that was the First Evil. However, remember also that the First Evil seems to generally tell the truth. So saying "she won't choose you," may have been said with evil intent, but it was still true, as has been shown by Buffy saying that, should she have the choice again between saving the entire world and saving her sister, she would choose the world. It can also be expanded to Buffy's attitude towards all her friends and potentials at this point, where she places the good of the whole world over the people she is closest too. |
| 40. | cotwarriorMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 10:01amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I completely disagree with the people crying out-of-character for Buffy/Angel. Just a few episodes ago, Buffy herself stated quite clearly: "I killed Angel! Do you even remember that? I would have given up everything I had to be with (him)? I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life." Yup. That "anything" includes Spike. how interesting to see people with selective memory here! |
| 41. | MikeJerMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 11:26amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Loved, not love, cotwarrior. That makes total sense considering that was her very first serious romance and the feelings were all new to her at the time. Buffy's grown a lot since then. |
| 42. | RunawayMarblesMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 11:39amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Also, she was willing to sacrifice Angel but not Dawn. |
| 43. | cotwarriorMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 7:43pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @RunawayMarbles. 1. the setting of becoming 2 is only Angel's blood can close the vortex but in the Gift both Buffy's and Dawn's blood can do so. 2. did you forget the "drink me" moment in Graduation Day 2? @MikeJer Your argument is reasonable, although I doubt she's grown out of the feeling for Angel. The way she said those words and the several encounters she and Angel had since S3 made me think she never did. Mike, I don't want to argue too much since this is quite subjective and can easily turn emotional. Just want to say I really enjoyed your reviews and I am happy that this forum is still alive. BTW, do you know when the reviews for Angel S4/5 will be completed? I look forward to reading those, especially AtS S5. |
| 44. | SpikeFan May 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 9:09pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @cotwarrior. In order to not get into the tedious, overplayed melodrama that is the Spike vs. Buffy debate I'll just say this. Angel yes always remains in a portion of Buffy's heart, but the thing is she moved on. He was her first love and what she needed at that particular time. If we recall the reason she said your above quote was not to rehash her old flame, but to prove that desperate times call for desperate measures and in order to save the world and all be a part of being the slayer is sacrifice. Of course, you do not think that she has grown out of that feeling which makes sense, but for the sake of the show she had to, she had to have character development and her relationship with Angel was stuck in high school, and in two different solar systems of the Whedonverse. Furthermore, I think that at this point in the season and series, it was a time to tie up loose ends and that is why Angel's cameo served an importance as closure. Also at this pointust s I think it is important to note Buffy's love for Spike, no matter how strong of a shipper you are, one may their tender moments really saved this season. Big Fan @MikeJer |
| 45. | MikeJerMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 9:40pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @cotwarrior: The last time we saw Buffy show any kind of romantic interest in Angel before the very end (which is what is in contention) is in "Forever" in which she had just lost her mom and was looking more for immediate comfort from an old flame than anything that resembled "true love," at least to me. I'd also like to point to their off screen meeting around early B6/A3 where both parties returned to their cities with comfort food. That meeting didn't seem like sunshine and roses to me. ;) On a bit of a related tangent, it's arguable what "true love" or a "soul mate" even is. Is it purely romantic/biological feelings towards a person? Or is it something that runs deeper than that -- something that includes a love of the other person intellectually and perhaps spiritually as well? I never got the impression that Buffy's love of Angel ran very deep -- it seemed mostly that of a high school girl's first serious infatuation, imo, of course. :) |
| 46. | MikeJerMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 9:44pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Oh, I forgot to respond to your Angel question. The answer depends on the community. While I will, indeed, be reviewing a handful of Angel episodes hopefully starting soon, most of the remaining reviews are to be completed by others in the community. But there's been a nice trickle of reviews over there, so keep an eye out on the news page/feed. |
| 47. | SpikeFan May 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 10:09pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| You also forgot to respond to me :( |
| 48. | MikeJerMay 24, 2011 (Tue) @ 11:02pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @SpikeFan: I typed up my response before I saw your reply. Even with that I don't see anything directed at me in your comment, one that I largely agree with. I'm grateful that you're a fan though! :D |
| 49. | cotwarriorMay 25, 2011 (Wed) @ 10:56amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @MikeJer "...it seemed mostly that of a high school girl's first serious infatuation..." WHAT?! As much as I like your reviews, here I have to completely disagree. first, I had a major crush with a girl in high school. Later when I think about it, I usually have a smile and feel some sweetness. But I would never say something like "I loved her more than I will ever love anything in this life." second, SMG's acting showed me that this is definitely not the case. frankly, I am rather surprised I am a Bangel fan myself, since Spike's character development in Buffy was far better than Angel and I liked Spike more in Buffy. I only started to love the Angel character in the episode Sanctuary and later in Epiphany. I guess the main reason is that of the 3 relationships Buffy had in the show, SMG's acting with Angel was the most natural, devoted, and believable. I can explain in detail but this will require a much longer post. probably later. |
| 50. | MikeJerMay 25, 2011 (Wed) @ 11:30amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Well, let me put it this way, I agree with you that Buffy "loved" Angel with all her heart at that time in her life, at least by her definition of love. Because it was a first love, though, the emotions tended to run a lot hotter than most more mature loves do, which doesn't make it better, at least in my eyes. Buffy's comment in "Selfless" is about how she felt at that time in her life, and I have no doubt that she's right in saying she will never love someone with that amount of intensity again. But that doesn't change the fact that that "love" was a blind, mostly biological simple love, and not a mature, sustaining intellectual and spiritual love. There's a big difference between the two groups, at least for me. In Season 7 everything is different, and I don't see much evidence to support the idea that she still loves him that much now, let alone that there's a basis for a mature relationship. I think she still cares for him and that he has a special place in her heart, but that she's moved on. Her relationship with Spike in Season 7 is something much more mature, adult, and sustainable than what she had with Angel. The Angel kind of love is simplistic and generally doesn't last, hence why I referred to it as a "serious infatuation" (my phrase, not Buffy's). |
| 51. | cotwarriorMay 25, 2011 (Wed) @ 2:13pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| @MikeJer Great Answer! Clear logic and relative objective observations. Exactly what I was looking for in a nice discussion. I do beg to differ from you in a few important points. But I want to clarify my positions first. 1. I am ultimately a fan of Buffy the character and SMG's acting. 2. My ultimate wish is Buffy's happiness, which, unfortunately, is almost unattainable in the Whedonverse, with her being the epitome of a tragic hero. Now the problems I have with your logic: 1. "mature, sustaining intellectual and spiritual love:" I agree that this will be the most ideal love. but I do not believe that she and Spike are there. Spike is still very obsessed with her. Spike's support for her in Touched felt like blind belief since Buffy's being sacked was at least partially her own fault. 2. Buffy's reactions in Chosen after Spike's "death" was rather stoic. Buffy is not an introvert and SMG can perform intense and contagious emotions, which is apparently lacking here. and why did Spike reacts to her "I love you" with "No, you don't, but thanks for saying that?" I am not convinced that they are there. 3. "The Angel kind of love is simplistic and generally doesn't last." Hey no need to demean one thing because you like the other better! The Angel relationship did not last because of insurmountable EXTERNAL obstacle, not because of (internal) character/personality conflicts. They managed it without any sensual reward for most of season 3. (spiritual love?) You can see how it can be rekindled immediately once the obstacle is gone (IWRY). I like the open-ended ending in Chosen. I agree with you the cookie dough speech is rather nice, conveying the fact that she is still growing as a person. I actually hope that she will no longer be a slayer but just a regular person. Come on! She has saved the world a lot, and probably it is time to pursue peace of mind and happiness, which will probably always be elusive to a slayer. |
| 52. | RunawayMarblesMay 25, 2011 (Wed) @ 11:34pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I dont' think it can be rekindled instantly. The Buffy that loved Angel was pretty idealistic, more innocent, and young. The older Buffy, that's had her mom die, that's been to heaven and back, that died for Dawn (and when I mentioned that she would give up Angel to save the world but not Dawn, I'd like to point out that she siad she woudln't sacrifice Dawn BEFORE she knew her blood wouldn't work. Rewatch the beginning of the episode,) and that's been through all the hells of seasons four through seven? I can't see her getting back together with Angel. There's a big difference between an eighteen year old and a twenty two year old, especially with everything that's happened. She's changed, Angel's changed, and there'll probably always be an attraction, but it's never going to be what it was. And it shouldn't be. I think what she's built with Spike is based more on who they are as people. Angel was created to be the love interest, but he didn't have much personality outside that. |
| 53. | debisibJun 2, 2011 (Thu) @ 4:26pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| id just like to point out that in the last season of angel, when angel and spike go to find buffy in rome, shes already moved on to the immortal... less than a year later. So, pbviously Buffy's intentions to move on had been there for quite a while, and that speech she gave to angel about cookie dough, seems almost like she was letting him down easily. Andrew said it, she moved on, you should too. So, of course everyone holds a torch for their first flame forever, even if its just dimly lit. But, I dont think she had any real intentions of making it work with Angel again, maybe not ever. |
| 54. | cotwarriorJun 3, 2011 (Fri) @ 10:37amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| The "Buffy" in Rome was one of three decoys used to confuse the enemies of the slayers. BtVS continues as a comic series (Season 8). Not surprisingly, there is another apocalypse. And yes, both Angel and Spike enter the plot later, both in a rather surprising way. |
| 55. | debisibJun 3, 2011 (Fri) @ 12:26pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| ok... so at the risk of sounding oblivious (i havent read the comics)... Buffy was never actually dating the immortal? |
| 56. | cotwarriorJun 3, 2011 (Fri) @ 9:13pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| nope... the Immortal thing was actually invented by Andrew, who did some research and thought it a hilarious idea! and we got to know why in "the Girl in Question." |
| 57. | fray-adjacentAug 18, 2011 (Thu) @ 1:56pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I feel like a big dork for writing a comment about this, but I love when Buffy tells Spike that "shirty ... isn't even a word." Because she's always inventing new words by adding y's to nouns. That makes me laugh sooooooo hard. OK, to add a bit of substance to the comment -- I actually like the Buffy/Xander scene. While Buffy telling Xander that he's her strength is a little weird after "Empty Places", in the context of the conversation it makes sense. 1, Xander himself might not be Buffy's strength, but the entire series has shown us that her friends as a whole are. Remembering that how much strength she forges through her relationships, through human connection, is part of how she gets to her plan in "Chosen", and it's part of the insight that she (re)gained from her night with Spike. 2, Buffy's asking Xander to take Dawn and leave town, to run away and leave the rest to fight, probably to the death (remember that it was only later that she realizes that they're "gonna win"). She's trying to convince him to go AND she doesn't want a bad goodbye. It makes it easy to believe they'd both overlook recent events and try act in the spirit of their years-long friendship. Another scene I love in this episode is the Xander/Dawn ones. Yeah, the taser might not have been such a good idea (though I love that she carries one), but everything else about those scenes is great stuff. Agreed on the Buffy/Faith, Buffy/Spike, and Anya/Andrew scenes. Character gold. Overall, some really bad exposition scenes (made much worse because what they're exposing isn't all that sensible) but even more great character scenes. |
| 58. | serenissimaNov 9, 2011 (Wed) @ 4:33pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| I completely agree with Mike that what Spike and Buffy have is more or less 'built to last' while what she shared with Angel was an infatuation... puppy love, if you will. And while that first love does always burn brightest, it also flames out the hardest, and I think that's what happened here. To use Buffy's words 'I loved him more than anything, blah blah' doesnt really mean much, either, because A. she's clearly recounting how she felt at that moment in time, not presently, and B. at said moment in time, EVERYTHING feels like 'the world.' It's all so intense at that age; just look at Dawn seasons 5 and 6. Crying in the bathroom just because a guy thinks she's a freak or stealing for attention. High school is Hell and Hell is a teenage girl and all that, right? I also think that Buffy knew (and Bangel fans know, deep down lol) that that type of love isn't REALLY real, based on her words to Spike when he says they should just get together because their feelings are so bright hot and passionate or whatever he said and she tells him those are the ones that just consume and leave nothing left. (I'm paraphrasing of course lol.) I think it's easier for fans to root for Bangel because it's dark and mysterious and swooning and romantic, which is great fodder for tv romance but doesnt ever pan out well in the real world, which is what we were launched into with Season 6. Spike found a place in Buffy's real life outside of scribbles in notebooks. He found a place in her heart, body, mind, and soul; in her home, with her family, with her friends. He took care of her and she took care of him. Angel never even came close. |
| 59. | x factorDec 29, 2011 (Thu) @ 2:35amView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| This episode highlights the utter ridiculousness of the "Buffy suddenly feels alone after 7 years" storyline that we are supposed to buy. Almost the very next scene after Buffy talks about how "alone" she is, she is telling Xander how he is her strength, how she couldnt have made it this far without him, how she trusts him with her life. Could the writers be any more mixed up about this season's themes? After seven years of leading the Scoobies, of assuming that burden, Buffy all of a sudden in year seven feels this burden? She is older now, presumably more mature not less, and better equipped to handle this burden...yet she suddenly has a problem with it, it suddenly weighs on her, when she had no problems with it in high school?? And Buffy isnt stupid. Her comments to Xander reflect her awareness of the fact that without them, she would have been dead for good before she finished her first year at Sunnydale. So how exactly does this make her "alone"? The scoobies entrust Buffy with their lives, but as she rightly points out to Xander, she in turn is able to trust them with HER life and the life of Dawn. None of this makes any sense to me, and speaks to the writers desperately trying to cobble together contrived forced storylines to fill up the episodes for this season. |
| 60. | nathan.taurusDec 29, 2011 (Thu) @ 7:37pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| x factor: It is laid on pretty think at the end of this season but the theme has been around since the beginning. In 'Out of Mind, Out of Sight' in season 1, Cordelia tells Buffy that she feels alone even when she is surrounded by her friends because they don't really know her. In 'Earshot' Buffy tells Jonathon about everybody hiding their pain and really being alone to themselves. Even "Firely" had the line about "everybody dies alone." The writers use it too much this season, though.
-Giles pointing out that he should have known about the scythe. True. Just like the Seal the audience should have had word on it in books seasons ago so the evidence was there. -"A burden we can't share." Wait for it. |
| 61. | NobodyJan 21, 2012 (Sat) @ 6:16pmView This Person's Comments | Link | |
| Okay, I have to admit that I'm a big fan of the scythe. Sure, they could have provided hints about it earlier, but really I didn't think it was a deus ex machina. The first clue of its existence came in Dirty Girls, which is four episodes from the finale. I like to look at this in movie terms. Five episodes is about one and a half movies. So I guess what I'm saying is, if the last five episodes were a movie, the scythe would have basically been hinted at since the beginning, making the discovery of the weapon perfectly credible and not just pulled out of thin air. I think the reason people don't like the scythe is because when the season is looked at like one reeeeally long movie, then yes, it is strange. But I think the writers did a good job with it. I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone but me, but I personally loved the scythe. |
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