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| Writer: | Drew Z. Greenberg |
| Director: | Michael Gershman |
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| - | Review |
"Older and Far Away" represents an episode with good itentions that just aren't realized very well. I've scored it the same as "All the Way" (6x06) because it shares many of that episode's problems: A focus on Dawn that doesn't really develop Dawn much, a plot that's fairly inconsequential, and a large part of screen time that just doesn't pay off in any kind of a meaningful way. Also like "All the Way" (6x06), there's bits and pieces here that I absolutely love. It's rather unfortunate that the central focus isn't nearly as enjoyable as the surrounding material.
Another sad fact is that anything following the scrumptious "Dead Things" (6x13) is going to suffer in comparison. I'm not going to let "Older and Far Away" off the hook because of it though. Since, in theory, its intent is to largely focus on Dawn's issues, that's where I'll start my analysis. Although Buffy had a brief realization in "Dead Things" (6x13) about her disconnect with Dawn, it's not until this episode where it takes center stage. I have to say that I like the idea of what's presented here and I love the continued follow-up from previous episodes.
In an early scene, we catch Dawn asking the gang if anyone wants to go shopping with her for Buffy's birthday. The problem is that everyone's too busy to spend time with Dawn. I can't help but sympathize with everyone in this scene. The "adults" are too busy with real life and obligations, which causes Dawn to feel a bit rejected over it. I mean, true, the adults definitely need to attend to their priorities, but someone really needs to go out of their way to give Dawn a little companionship every now and then.
With Tara never around anymore, Dawn's got no one to give her that little special nugget of attention. I really feel bad for Dawn here, even despite her inability to completely grasp the severity of the situations around her. Dawn explains her feelings (err, wishing) out loud to Guidance Counselor Halfrek: "People keep... people have a tendency to go away... and, I miss them. And sometimes... I wish I could just make them stop." Once again, I'm much with the sympathy. But still, that's no excuse for resorting to theft and lying, although I do understand the why.
Further into the proceedings, Dawn postures that Buffy doesn't understand what it's like to be alone. Clearly she's not thinking hard enough. Manufactured memories or not, "Becoming Pt. 2" (2x22) anyone? Dawn's being overly selfish here, no doubt about it. The selfishness may be rooted in something genuine, but it's still selfishness. This whole season is a time for her to really begin fully waking up to the adult world and its numerous complexities -- she's a part of it now simply by proxy of her relationship to Buffy and the situation around her.
As the situation with the plot gets intense (in theory, anyway), more and more signs point to the fact that their situation of being stuck inside Buffy's house has something to do with Dawn. Eventually it reaches a boiling point when a desperate Anya starts digging through all of Dawn's things. I'm very pleased that Anya discovers all the little trinkets Dawn has stolen from the Magic Box for nearly a year now. This, of all things, would hurt Anya badly. In fact, I'm a bit surprised that Anya's not a lot more angry at her for the theft. When I think it about it some more, though, this is a testament to how much her relationship with Xander has affected her. Although Anya wants retribution, she's certainly not vengeful about it, which actively shows us the growth of Anya as a character.
Although Halfrek's speech towards the end is a bit overwraught, she's not wrong. No one was noticing Dawn's pain because they were too busy dealing with their own. The episode's title fully manifests itself here: everyone's gotten older (ergo adult responsibilities) and feel much further away both from Dawn and, in reality, each other. This is unfortunately one of the inevitabilities of growing up -- old friends tend to get lives separate from their group, which ends up causing everyone to break apart. It's just a crappy situation all around, although I think just about everyone is a bit sympathetic to Dawn's pain. As Tara points out, "It happens. We all went through it." The episode ends with Buffy glancing at Dawn, who then throws back a genuinely warm smile. I loved the subtlety of this little moment and how it hints that their relationship, and things in general for Dawn, are going to improve which, more or less, in time they do.
So, the primary focus of the episode definitely has its moments, but it's all a bit underwhelming. Things get especially rocky when the actual plot kicks in gear. First off, there's the overly hokey demon. Mr. Red Shirt (and hey, he's actually wearing a red shirt!!) gets stabbed right as expected, which leaves everyone all occupied by a boring plot, with a demon that exists only to prolong the episode and create non-existent tension. The episode tries really hard to play up the fear and claustrophobia, but all it succeeds in doing is making me wonder when we'll get another character moment. With a plot this uninspired, there's got to be some character relevance to back it up. Unfortunately, the episode doesn't have much.
Although I found several things they did with Dawn inspired, there simply wasn't enough substantive material here to make an entire episode about. It's particularly bad when they go overboard with Dawn's angst. As expressed earlier, I have a lot of sympathy for Dawn's situation, but the way the scene in her bedroom plays out is just awful (even if I were to graciously ignore the awful "GET OUT!" outburst, which I won't -- it's awful). Dawn comes off as far too whiny, in an over-the-top kind of way. Dawn's words and MT's acting in the scene are just atrocious. I rarely say that about this show, which makes it particularly stick out when it happens. Even so, I'm not going to let once bad scene spoil an entire episode for me.
On a more positive note, there's a whole bunch of smaller moments that ended up allowing me keep the '+' on the 'C' that is this episode. I have to say, I just loved Tara in this episode. Everything she said and did made me smile, proud, and/or warm inside. It starts with some good continuity, with Buffy thrilled to see Tara showing up to her birthday. I love their new friendship, which is far stronger now than what they had before. Buffy tells Tara that she's alright at the moment even though she's still not at all better, let alone ready to openly admit her involvement with Spike.
Continuing the Tara love is when Dawn's gift to Buffy, obviously a stolen one, is shrugged off by Buffy as seemingly nothing special the moment Xander rolls out his (completely awesome) gift. Dawn deserved at least a hug and a heartfelt 'thank you' for the gift. When Dawn walks by Tara to shut the door, you can tell Tara can sense Dawn's sadness and you can feel Tara's sympathy for her.
I nearly fell on the floor in laughter with how Tara treated Spike's delicious excuse for what he was trying to do with Buffy against the wall. "I had a, uh, muscle cramp. Buffy was helping." Tara's barely-restrained-grin reaction is priceless: "A muscle cramp, in your... pants?" Spike looks terrified of her and I'm loving Tara for every moment of it. Tara's response to Spike out in the family room is also amazing, "How's that cramp Spike? Still bothering you? ... Maybe you, uh, wanna put some ice on it." I'll I can say is: grin.
During a curcial moment, Anya is trying push Willow into using more powerful magic to get out of their current predicament. Xander, of course, backs Anya up, who does have a point: it is Willow's fault that she has self-control issues and can't use magic responsibly. Saying that now, though, doesn't help the current situation at all and puts Willow in a really awful, unfair situation. What happens next? Well, of course, Tara comes to the rescue and stands up for Willow! I just love Tara altogether in this episode -- she really steals the whole thing away from its intended focus on Dawn and ended up making the episode a frequent joy to watch. I'm very pleased to announce that Tara's really come into her own, and I'll always remember this episode fondly for it.
One last little bit I found amusing is Anya's attitude towards Dawn. How very condescendingly funny she can be sometimes. This attitude has always remained the same in that she treats Dawn like a very small child. Although Dawn has every right to be completely frustrated at Anya because of this, I can't help but laugh at the way Anya talks. I just love it.
So, the final verdict on this one is a mixed bag. There's a lot of material I really appreciated and enjoyed, but the poor use of the demon, some plot contrivances, the minimal and somewhat haphazard development of Dawn, and the overall failed attempt at producing any kind of real drama out of the situation just bring it all down. My biggest beef with it is simply that what it focused on wasn't nearly as good as it could've been. On the other hand, there's so much ancillary joy that the episode isn't a complete waste either. In a nutshell, it's a moderately important episode that has its moments but is plagued by a few serious issues.
| - | Minor Pros/Cons (+/-) |
| Pros: | |
| + | Despite the demon's hokiness, I did get a chuckle at Buffy's little spurt of giddiness over her new sword. "Ooo! Shiny!" |
| + | Xander politely asking Willow if she'd mind if Tara showed up at Buffy's birthday party. |
| + | Buffy claims she's not one of those people who can't make friends out of her tight little circle. Turns out, she kinda is... kinda like me. ;) |
| + | Although I don't like how what Buffy did to Spike wasn't addressed at all (aside from a passing comment from Spike), I do find Spike's capacity for not letting physical violence towards him change how he feels. |
| + | The instant tension in the room when Spike arrives (with Clem!) followed by the random "set up" guy that Xander and Anya brought for Buffy. Spike's raised eyebrow is hilarious. Tara jumping in, calling him "cute" while getting Clem to agree was also very amusing. |
| + | We can tell Spike's here not so much for the boring party celebration. He's got other things in mind. |
| + | Willow's present to Buffy is beyond funny: an electric back massager. "Instant gratification for all your little achies." Spike raises another eyebrow hinting at some other uses of the device. |
| + | Willow upstairs, getting herself together, and trying to look her best for Tara, followed by their mutual nervousness at talking to each other again. |
| + | Buffy and Spike's argument by the door is entertaining. "No, you were right. You're insane." |
| + | Clem, Xander, and Dawn watching cartoons together in the morning. |
| + | I like how when Xander sees how worried Anya is over his flesh wound, he immediately gets up and reassures her. Just a nice little touch there. |
| + | The little nod to Halfrek being Cecily, Spike's pre-vamp love. |
| Cons: | |
| - | Despite Buffy's awareness of the situation, I still have a hard time believing she'd catch on to the wish angle from Dawn so quickly. It just didn't feel realistic to me. |
| - | Quotes |
| ANYA: | Do you think we should set up lots of candles for Buffy's party tomorrow? |
| XANDER: | Not if they're that horrible slug kind you keep trying to unload. |
| ANYA: | I don't know why people get so turned off by slug. |
| XANDER: | Honey, slugs get turned off by slug. (to Willow) Oh, actually, I wanted to talk to you about that. |
| WILLOW: | Slugs? |
| XANDER: | So, who's coming, you invite anyone else? |
| BUFFY: | Just you guys. Willow, Tara. The gang. Oh, and Sophie from work. (off their looks) What? Like I'm one of those losers who can't make friends outside her tight little circle? No. I'm friendly. We bonded instantly. Peas in a pod. Bonded peas. |
| ANYA: | Really? Um, what's Sophie's last name? |
| BUFFY: | Okay, shut up. |
| ANYA: | Well, well... we invited someone for you. A guy. |
| DAWN: | For Buffy? Really? |
| XANDER: | Ahn, don't worry, it's not a setup. |
| ANYA: | Right. No. Just an attractive single man, with whom we hope you find much in common. And if you happen to form- |
| XANDER: | Ahn- |
| ANYA: | -a romantic relationship leading to babies- |
| XANDER: | Ahn- |
| ANYA: | -and many double dates with us so we have someone else to talk to, yay! |
| BUFFY: | How are you doing? |
| TARA: | The word "gulp" comes to mind. |
| BUFFY: | Just remember, we're all here... to... (Willow arrives) ...I have to, with the thing that I, uh... coming! |
| SPIKE: | I had... a... muscle cramp. Buffy was, uh, helping. |
| TARA: | A muscle cramp? In your... pants? |
| XANDER: | You wanna try poker? |
| CLEM: | Still say it's weird without the kittens. |
| BUFFY: | No kittens! |
| SPIKE: | So, you ever think about not celebrating a birthday? Just to try it, I mean. |
| - | Score |
| 71/100 | C+ |
The main plot is likely problematic and/or hokey, but sharp humor and/or character development and relevance keep it afloat. A couple moments may be over-the-top in a bad way.
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| - | Awards |
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| - | Screencaps |
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| - | Comments (33) |
| 1. | gabrielleabelleJun 1, 2008 (Sun) | |
| Am I the only one who thought Tara came across as being kinda mean to Spike? After hearing about his relationship with Buffy in the previous episode, then she goes on to tease him about the fact that Buffy's using him for sex? Eh, maybe it's just my fangirlish Spike-sympathy kicking in. On the actual episode, I completely understand Dawn's development and it makes perfect sense in portraying her as a normal teen with massive abandonment issues. Unfortunately, it just annoys me. |
| 2. | buffyholicJun 2, 2008 (Mon) | |
| This episode has a lot going on, that sometimes people ignore. All that is going on with all the characters, mainly Willow and Buffy. Both of them are trying to fight the temptation. Willow is trying to avoid using magic and Buffy tries to avoid going to Spike for comfort and her own selfish desires. |
| 3. | junJun 2, 2008 (Mon) | |
| I never thought Tara was being mean. Just saying, "Not the time and place for it, dude." |
| 4. | AnonDKJun 2, 2008 (Mon) | |
| To be honest, he did emotionally violate her, and all Tara knows about the situation is that it's tearing Buffy up inside. With that insight, her comments made sense, considering he was trying to do Buffy right there and then with all her friends in the house, and kinda justify why she says it. Either that, or I'm a Tara fanboy and think she is just SO cool in this episode. Either one ;) As much as I agree that this episode doesn't have much to it, Buffy closing the door with Dawn grinning at the end is one of my favourite moments in the show. It's so well deserved and sweet! |
| 5. | wilpy1Jun 2, 2008 (Mon) | |
| Tara rocked in this episode! Her taunting of Spike is my favourite part. I don't think she was being mean at all - she knows Spike can take it. It's not like Buffy using him for sex was a horrific experience for him. (Unless she's bad in bed, but I can't imagine why she would be with her peppiness and super strength and all.) |
| 6. | gabrielleabelleJun 2, 2008 (Mon) | |
| wilpy, I think Spike did mind being used at times (Gone and Dead Things spring to mind). Most of the time, though, he just didn't realize that he was being used (Though does that make it okay to tease him about it?). It wasn't until he got his soul that he was able to look back in retrospect and see things as they actually were. Anyway, considering Spike still had bruises from Buffy's beating, I thought Tara's teasing of him was a little insensitive (Especially given she had actually given him some kind words to Buffy at the end of Dead Things). But I guess Tara had no way of knowing how he'd gotten beat up and didn't make the connection there. Still comes across as callous to me since she knew about the situation, though. And I'm generally a Tara-fangirl, too (Just more of a Spike-fangirl). But this is also probably a case of me being overall disappointed with the lack of follow-up to the wonderful Dead Things. Meh. |
| 7. | wilpy1Jun 3, 2008 (Tue) | |
| > "(Though does that make it okay to tease him about it?)" If Buffy had been the one to corner Spike in the Summers' house and start getting sexy, it would've been quite insensitive for Tara to tease him about it. However, Spike was the instigator in that hallway, and he was enjoying it. If he really didn't like being used, he would've called it off early on, but he didn't. So why should Tara be ultra-sensitive and cautious about his feelings when he's clearly enjoying the sex? I just don't see it as not being good follow-through. I just have to say, how *blind* are Xander and Anya in this episode! Buffy's clearly not in any fit state to be in a steady relationship again, and this just does not fit with Buffy telling Xander in 'I Was Made...' that she's not ready for another relationship in the near future. I think this was just a cheap plot device to have a Red Shirt in the mix who's left in peril. |
| 8. | wilpy1Jun 3, 2008 (Tue) | |
| Oh! I just realised some funny continuity. Anya and Xander talk about slug-scented candles, and that was what Buffy was trying to not sell to a customer when she had her time-looping job at the Magic Box. Neat. :D |
| 9. | gabrielleabelleJun 3, 2008 (Tue) | |
| Eh, I relent. My fangirl starts to rear her head around this time of season 6, so... |
| 10. | wilpyJun 3, 2008 (Tue) | |
| Or maybe I'm just being an obsessive Tara fanboy. Who knows! (Actually, I know, and I'll admit it: I'm an obsessive Tara fanboy. And damn proud!) |
| 11. | gabrielleabelleJun 3, 2008 (Tue) | |
| No, no. I'm sure I'm wrong on this one. ;) Season 6 gets my fangirl agitated. |
| 12. | Plain SimpleJul 23, 2008 (Wed) | |
| @wilpy1: at least Xander was trying to pass the Red Shirt as just another guy, while Anya actively mentions his date qualities (see also quotes above). And Anya never was the most subtle of the gang. |
| 13. | ShularAug 30, 2008 (Sat) | |
| I, too, thought Tara was great in this episode. As has been pointed out, her self-confidence grew leaps and bounds since her introduction. However, I think it was her breaking away from Willow when she had to that completed that growth arc. She proved something to herself, and became much stronger for it. Perhaps the fact that she completed this arc was a contributing facter to what would eventually happen to her. |
| 14. | faileNov 13, 2008 (Thu) | |
| I love your reviews! I'm new to Buffy (I know!) and I just love Tara's evolution; liked her from the get go, though. But I'm still pretty much torn up from the final parts of season 6 that I don't think I'll ever watch season 7. |
| 15. | wilpy1Nov 13, 2008 (Thu) | |
| faile, why on earth would you not watch the rest of the show because a character died?! Killing off the whole cast wouldn't have stopped me watching it. But then I am crazy. |
| 16. | faileNov 13, 2008 (Thu) | |
| @ wilpy1: i might have overreacted a little, being new to comment here and all. Besides, I just finished watching Grave again and it just made me so emotionally drained - not just because of Tara but seeing the remaining Scoobies being destroyed by one of them. Tara is my favorite character and I do understand the significance of her death to move Willow's story along. That the last 4 episodes of season 6 had that much effect on me,and I'm not one to be easily affected by TV or movies, speaks volumes about how effective the storytelling was in the show. I takeit back, I may watch season 7 eventually. I just need a long break, I guess. |
| 17. | wilpy1Nov 13, 2008 (Thu) | |
| If you were affected by those episodes so much because they reminded you of something that happened in your own life, I could understand why you wouldn't want to continue. But otherwise, it'd be silly not to continue as you'd be missing out on one of the better seasons of the show. S7 is a bit hard-going at times, but never to the extent of S6. The first half of it kind of returns to the roots of the show, so you don't have to worry about being as emotionally drained. In any case, welcome to the site. I hope you haven't spoiled yourself too much by reading these reviews! |
| 18. | RichieJan 19, 2009 (Mon) | |
| Gotta say - I really enjoy this episode! All the nice character interaction (although I'll admit Dawn is annoying ), the Buffy/Spike thing being kept under wraps, Tara's superbness (hey look, a new word!), everyone being trapped in the house together. Maybe it just takes me back to season 5 when everyone was working together, but after this it all falls apart, so I rate this ep pretty highly. Give it a better score Mike! |
| 19. | EmilyJun 15, 2009 (Mon) | |
| There are some times- very rare times- when I watch the show and I wonder, "Why do I hate Dawn so much? She's annoying and I generally dislike her, but she's not *that* bad." And then I get to episodes like this. (And like "Gone," where, imo, she has no legitimate reason to freak out at Buffy over her invisibility or over the fact that she got hurt when she was with Willow and Buffy couldn't stop it. Buffy can't be everywhere at once.) And I say, "Oh. So *that's* why I absolutely despise her." MT's acting is horrible. Horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE. And it's not just here- it's on Gossip Girl, too! (Yes, I watch GG. So sue me.) I don't understand why people keep giving her acting jobs. And Dawn's character- wow, she is beyond annoying. So annoying and selfish and egocentric and....just get a life! She has no friends whatsoever. Did anyone notice this? Go and make some friends!! I personally had a hard time with friends at her age. I skipped a grade- went from 3rd to 5th, and I had no good friends until I was in tenth grade. Took me a long time to overcome my social issues. But I didn't steal stuff! Argghhh- she just gets on my nerves so much. Anyway, if it wasn't for Dawn I would love this episode. (Buffy should've just let Doris take her away.) |
| 20. | AdamJun 15, 2009 (Mon) | |
| Geez, Emily, I think you're being way too harsh on Dawn. I've never had a problem with Michelle Tratchenberg/Dawn. For example, in Bargaining I think she did the tower scene great and with a lot of emotion. While she isn't the best actress in the world and definitely not near the level of Sarah or Alyson, she did her job correctly. Remember when she did this role she was just doing what the writers and Joss told her to do when portraying Dawn. She had to act like a 14/15 year old or else it wouldn't make sense.
I would blame the writers more than the actress. Also, you've got to think, what you would do if you were in Dawn's situation. She is wanted by a hell god and her life is always at risk. She has it very hard and she had to grow with her sister always getting the attention and praise. By the way, she does have friends, like in the episode All the Way. While the writers and Michelle may not have done the character perfectly, I don't think it was done horribly. |
| 21. | LeeluJun 15, 2009 (Mon) | |
| I actually like Dawn. I think she's spunky, though I agree that she does whine too much. But her over-reaction to some things is very understandable. She's got some major abandonment fears, and she has a confused sense of self. It's also quite realistic that she'd have few friends, considering all the crazy crap that happens in her life. Most kids would probably steer clear of her and her "insane" family. Really, Dawn's turned out pretty damned normal considering how screwed up her life COULD have made her, especially the bit when she found out she wasn't "real." |
| 22. | EmilyJun 15, 2009 (Mon) | |
| @Adam: I do blame the writers more than I blame MT. In my comment, when I said "Dawn's character", I'm talking about the writers, not MT. I think that if they'd put more thought into her character, she would've been semi-bearable. It's just that coupled with the character they wrote, *and* MT's acting- dear God, help me. I always thought the tower scene in Bargaining was waaay over done, even before I started to hate Dawn. (I really began to dislike her character the third time around I watched Buffy, but I *always* thought MT was a bad actress.) @Leelu: The fact is that Buffy went through soooo much more than Dawn did, and how many times do you see her bitching and whining? (Well, I don't know if that's a fact, but it's my honest opinion.) Maybe it's not the greatest thing that she keeps stuff bottled up inside, but even when she doesn't keep stuff bottled up, when she admits to her feelings of how horrible her life is (see: when she talks to Mr. Platt, the psychologist, in S3, and when she tells Giles and Willow that Angel got his soul before she killed him), I don't want to smack her because of how selfish she's being. My point is....well, that the writers didn't know what the hell they were doing when they wrote Dawn's character. |
| 23. | EmilyJun 15, 2009 (Mon) | |
| **When I said "I don't know if that's a fact, but it's my honest opinion", I was referring to whether Buffy went through more than Dawn did. Some would maybe argue that finding out you're not human outweighs everything that Buffy did. I don't *know* anyone who says that, but it's possible that there's someone who does. Not me, though:) |
| 24. | wagdogJun 23, 2009 (Tue) | |
| Tara rocks. Looooove that character. Enough said. Dawn is Dawn, she's supposed to be whiny, annoying and selfish in a little sister way. That's the way she's written. And I've never thought MT's acting was bad. Certainly not at the same gold standards as SMG or AH but decent enough. I wonder if people end up criticizing MT's acting because they dislike the character so much? The red shirt was fun. As soon as he walked in you knew what was going to happen to him. Those little nods to cultural icons always bring a smile to my face. And Buffy's new 'friend' was priceless AND forgettable. My favorite 'non-Tara' moments involved Anya when she stood up to Willow and then confronted Dawn. Here we see a new character: an assertive and confidant Anya. She clearly articulated what I was thinking and didn't back down until her piece was said. Good on ya, Anya! |
| 25. | LeeluJun 23, 2009 (Tue) | |
| @Emily: Buffy definitely acted out due to the all the crap she dealt with. The only difference is that she acted like a straight-up bitch, instead of just being whiney. They are different people with different personalities, and so they are going to react differently. That's perfectly normal. |
| 26. | SeleneJul 15, 2009 (Wed) | |
| Dawn annoys me to no end in this episode. When she whines about "How else can I get anyone to spend any time with me?" I want to say to her "You want people to spend time with you? Be someone worth spending time with, you whiny little twit"
Xander also ticked me off. He wants Willow to 'recover' from her addiction, yet he'll hop on the Anya bandwagon and tell his lifelong best friend to blow off that recovery to try to do something they don't even know will help. ("Good for you on staying magick-free for so long, now let's throw it all away for what might just be an exercise in futility!") But Tara was TERRIFIC in this episode!!!!! |
| 27. | JadenOct 8, 2009 (Thu) @ 1:34am | |
| I completely LOLed when Halfreck told them about how she could hear Dawn's pain and suffering "screaming out to her" wherever she went in "this town" or whatever. This is SUNNYDALE. Remember "Earshot"? How many teens have fucked up problems and are really suffering because of them, especially in Sunnydale. In fact just remember the whole first season "high school is hell" moto. And here Dawn is, suffering more than all of them apparently because she isn't getting much attention from her older sister's best friends??? Hallie needs to get incinerated sooner... |
| 28. | ThrupcatOct 19, 2009 (Mon) @ 1:56am | |
| I love this episode for several reasons: Spike and Tara - need I say more? Tara was never funnier. And Halfrek - how much do love Halfrek?! I adore the scene when she pompously declares that she will leave the group in their misery and then realizes she herself is also caught in the spell. Terrific! It's too bad Hallie had to die in Selfless, I would have loved to see her much more. |
| 29. | ChrisOct 23, 2009 (Fri) @ 3:06pm | |
| This episode is severely underated in my opinion |
| 30. | KathyOct 30, 2009 (Fri) @ 5:56pm | |
| Dawn was annoying and whiny and self centered because she was a hormone addled 14/15 year old. Teens at that age are usually like that and consequently hard to be around. does anyone else think that Spike seems somewhat proud of his bruises? I think on some level he enjoys that his lover beat him up. And that's ok, Spike likes a strong woman, and they are both consenting adults. Am I wrong here in thinking that folks are put off by the rough sex? Emotionally Buffy doesn't handle it well, in part because of her rightful fear of the judgment of her friends, but if you're depressed (and I have been) and you find something that feels good and isn't hurting anyone, then I say go for it. |
| 31. | LesKatJan 18, 2010 (Mon) @ 12:05pm | |
| So, as a consensus, everyone seems to think that Dawn's behavior should be expected/excused because she is a hormonal teenager and it is to be expected as age appropriate behavior. And I think that Dawn feels this as well and knows she can get away with it. I don't completely disagree, although her character makes me want to throw something at my TV. If we keep this mindset, I feel that people are way too hard on Buffy for her actions of not being there all the time for Dawn. She is in her early 20's on top of everything else going on in her life. And I think she is doing a damned good job at it. She's working at freaking Doublemeat Palace, just to put food on the table for Dawn (and willow apparently), she's slaying and doing her patrols and on top of that all kinds of responsibility. So, she's a little slutty with Spike sometimes? Yeah, not good decisions, but just as teenagers are annoying and hormonal, those in their early 20's are experimenting on who they are as an adult and sometimes(a lot of time) that includes bad sexual decisions. I'm having a hard time getting across my point here. Basically, I think people need to give buffy a break on her actions at times. She is the slayer, not perfect. Of course being a mother, back from the dead, the slayer and a fast food worker sucks. A whole lot. ps...this is not aimed at anyone in particular on this site. just some thoughts of mine from reading things on other places that think Buffy is horrrrrible because she isn't there for dawn 24/7. |
| 32. | EchoJan 20, 2010 (Wed) @ 8:57am | |
| Just my take on some of the issues raised in this thread. Tara isn't just teasing Spike. She's keeping him off-balance to give Buffy some space. I think this is an important distinction from just teasing to have fun. Spike does have power over Buffy. She's confused, hurting, and horrified at their relationship, and yet unable to stop it. Buffy had been counting on Spike NOT coming to this party. Tara is running interference to keep Spike from manipulating Buffy on her birthday. Spike, OTOH, isn't OK with being used. He makes that clear several times. I disagree that he must be OK with the situation because he hasn't cut off the relationship. He doesn't want *less* of a relationship with Buffy. He wants *more*. He believes that if he's persistent and doesn't allow her to run away, she will come to accept her feelings for him. (The feelings he believes she has, not the feelings she actually has.) Therefore, he's not at the party to get some tail. He's here to push her toward acknowledging him publicly. Again, this is not an issue for Buffy to have to address on her birthday. She's in bad enough shape. Thus Tara and the interference. I actually love Dawn, but I think she was terribly underwritten this season. So I can sort of see the Dawn hate from both sides for this season. She doesn't really get a thread at all this arc. In fact, since we've established that she holds Spike on a pedestal in S5, why on earth doesn't she even talk to him here? I think her writing was fine in S5 and a lot of S7. She's supposed to be less mature than the Scoobies, and that is OK. |
| 33. | ZapheJan 26, 2010 (Tue) @ 4:53am | |
| I, too, think Spike was not really OK to continue a relationship on Buffy's term. Like other posters said, he was not able to understand the extent of how Buffy was using him. Since he is hopelessly in love with her, he will take whatever he can to be close to Buffy and hope that given time, her feeling for him will turn into love.
I do feel that in this case Tara was being a little mean to Spike. While Spike was souless and incapable of understanding the complexity of Buffy's feelings and emotion, Tara is supposed to be a sensitive being with a soul and I cannot see why she, especially after the last conversation she had with Buffy, cannot be a bit more sympathic of Spike's situation. |
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