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| Writer: | Marti Noxon |
| Director: | Marti Noxon |
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"Into the Woods" is an excellent episode which provides some well needed commentary on Buffy as an individual up to this point. It accomplishes this task by focusing completely on her relationship with Riley, which of course ends here. We can see that both people in this relationship are at fault to some extent and that there are no easy answers for Buffy. In the end, Riley puts her in an incredibly unfair and difficult position, yet it accomplishes what it needed to, with the timely assistance of Xander, by forcing Buffy to make a choice with her heart, now: let Riley go or get over there and tell him you're willing to really take this relationship to a whole new place. Alas, it's too late and Buffy enters the beginning of a really rough period of her life.
The beginning of the end of Buffy's Slayer-like happy years gets into gear here. The theme of all this is touched on very early in the episode when Riley hears that Buffy did actually cry over the situation with her mom's illness, yet alone. It's obvious here that there is a lot Riley really just doesn't 'get' about Buffy. The way she shows her emotions is an example of something that eludes him. Even so, soon after this Buffy and Riley share their most genuinely romantic scene in their entire relationship, which is very pleasant to watch.
It's obvious Buffy enjoyed her evening with Riley, in all ways, but her whole demeanor with him is that of a casual nature--that this is just a casual relationship for her. Riley wants it to be more, but for some reason won't ever tell her that's what he wants out of it--to take it to the next step that he's been assuming for so long she's been at. I believe that he can see that she's not ready for something more serious at this time and I think he's acting out as a way to deny this truth to himself. Of course, he had it right when he talked to Xander in "The Replacement" (5x03). The simple fact is that Buffy is not in love with him. Buffy does treat him like a convenience rather than an equal partner, even later saying, "I can see him [Riley] any time."
The thing is, I just don't blame Buffy for not being ready for a deeper relationship at her age. It's Riley's fault it took him so long to realize he wants more than Buffy's ready to give. This is what has lead Riley to run off and do some genuinely dumb things like, oh, willingly getting suck jobs from vampire girls. I've always understood Riley's behavior, but that doesn't excuse him when he goes too far in expressing his denial. Buffy's reaction to seeing Riley like this later is spot on: unable to utter a word, just "uh..." When she gets home we see some wonderful expressions: pain, sickness, and hurt.
With Riley's secret now exposed, no thanks to Spike, he charges off to Spike's crypt to vent his anger at him. This leads to a great, great chat between the two of them that really sets up the whole Spike/Buffy relationship to come. I particularly love it when Riley asks Spike "You actually think you've got a shot with her?" and he immediately replies, "No, I don't. Fella's gotta try, though. Gotta do what he can." Spike goes on to tell Riley that he's not the "long haul guy." However, I think Spike is wrong here. All Riley seems to want is to be the long haul guy. Regardless of my knowledge of future episodes, I always got the feeling off Riley that he wants to be married, have kids, and barbeque on the back porch. It's the fact that Buffy can't have this life at this time that ruins the relationship from Riley's perspective. Although Spike is somewhat correct when he says Buffy needs some monster in her man, I don't think it's that simple. She doesn't need it but rather she's just attracted to it. Spike is dead on in pointing out that that's not in Riley's nature. Spike says maybe he got the better deal when he tells Riley, "to be that close to her, and not have her..." But then he understandably quickly reconsiders that position.
Later on Riley confronts Buffy in the training room over everything that's happened. He claims that when this vamp 'thing' started it was an immature game (yep), and that he wanted to even the score with the Dracula issue. He asks the question, "why do Dracula and Angel have so much power over you?" While I feel Riley overstates their alleged powerful aura, he does have a good reason to ask why those creatures excite her? I'm sure some of it has to do with her nature as a slayer, but some of it is just that she still has a bit of a thing for the darker parts of those characters' personalities. Although, most of the Dracula thing was pure mind control, so I think Riley's placing too much emphasis on that encounter.
At least Riley admits all of this vamp mess is his fault, because it is. Buffy poses the important question, "what could those whores give you that I couldn't" and Riley replies, "they needed me." Interesting. Riley despately wants to be needed, and the fact of the matter is that he's not in Buffy's world. He really should have gotten a job. Imagine how "needed" he'd have been with a steady income after Buffy's mom had died. I like how Riley also admits to Buffy that it's hard having a girlfriend that's much stronger than him. Buffy essentially says that this is who she is, somewhat out of necessity because of the slayer issue, but she seems pretty unwilling to admit that her slayer complex makes it difficult to have a really mutual, deep relationship. This is the moment Riley realizes that it's over, and he announces the military deal to her. The ultimatum he gives her is extremely unfair, but I get at what he's trying to do here. Riley then wants Buffy to hit him as a sign that she has any kind of strong emotions over him, but she just walks out. This is a pretty immature response from Riley though. The only time Buffy ever hit Angel when they were together was when he was either evil or dying.
After an extremely cool fight sequence outside where Buffy just tears apart a big group of vamps, Xander confronts Buffy on the touchy subject at hand as she tries to flee from him, wanting to deal with her emotions alone again. After he sees Buffy's expression and pause earlier on after mentioning getting Riley, we know that he knows exactly what's going in that relationship. He says, "it's right in front of my Xander-face." Buffy says she thought Riley was "dependable"--the normal guy. Xander replies with fitting amusement, "what is he, State Farm?" Xander nails it when he says, "You got burned with Angel ... and you shut down. And you've been treating Riley like the rebound guy." There's just no way she can deny this truth and she doesn't try to.
While I think Xander overstates Riley's virtues when he says, "he's the one that comes once in a lifetime," Riley does have positive qualities and is a really nice man. What Xander says from this point on says it all: "if you really think you can love this guy ... I'm talking scary, messy, no-emotions-barred need ... if you're ready for that ... then think about what you're about to lose." As I've pointed out before, Buffy thinks of Riley just as a boyfriend and not a really serious relationship (think possibly marriage and children). Riley's always wanted a serious relationship with her and was incorrect in assuming she was on the same page as him all this time. But Xander here essentially asks, do you want a serious relationship with this guy? Can you open yourself up emotionally again like you did with Angel? Buffy's response is that yes, she does want to give this a real try. But, alas, it's just too late and there endeth Buffy and Riley. :(
To tie up some loose ends I'm going to briefly touch on Spike and Xander. First off, I really enjoyed seeing Spike's selfish attempt to 'help' Buffy out by giving away Riley's little secret. He is so happy that he got Riley caught but comes to quickly reconsider that feeling when he sees its affect on Buffy. I noticed Spike showing an expression of surprise when he sees Riley first leave Buffy's house in the middle of the night. I know what Spike must be thinking: "why in the world would he be leaving Buffy's bed for anything!?" I also want to point out Xander's, quite frankly, stunning speech to Anya after he gives advice to Buffy on her relationship with Riley. It is just... amazing beyond words. Great character development doesn't even begin to describe it! I'm reminded of how expertly this was done in "New Moon Rising" (4x19), where one character's experience affects the views of another in a profound way. Excellent.
Well, that's about it for this one. "Into the Woods" proves to be a captivating episode about relationships, love, and committment. A lot of important development came from the lessons learned here. I thouroghly enjoyed this one from both the analytical and fun factor standpoints. Great stuff!
| - | Minor Pros/Cons (+/-) |
| Pros: | |
| + | Buffy continuing to stroke Dawn's hair, almost like she can't help it. |
| + | The tension-filled opening scene at the hospital, especially with Buffy's fiddling with her hands. |
| + | Giles and Xander stopping just before hugging each other at the good news on Joyce's recovery. |
| + | Buffy reacting surprisingly cool when she wakes up to find Spike standing over her bed! |
| + | The multi-named banner for all the different holidays. |
| + | Riley staking Spike with a plastic wood grain stake. Very shocking moment first time you see it. |
| + | The song that plays as Buffy's running to Riley at the end. Overly dramatic? Maybe. But I found it really moving. |
| - | Foreshadowing |
|
| - | Quotes |
| ANYA: | Well, we could play that game again, Life. That was fun. |
| DAWN: | For you. You always win. |
| ANYA: | Well...we can make a wager this time. You can give me real money. That would be different. |
| XANDER: | And after we teach her to gamble, maybe we can all get drunk! |
| ANYA: | I don't think the bar would serve her, but we could bring something in. |
| ANYA: | There's a chimp playing hockey!? |
| DAWN: | Um, no, the other one. I don't wanna see a sad movie. |
| ANYA: | We have to see the chimp playing hockey! That's hilarious! The ice is so slippery, and, and monkeys are all irrational. We have to see this. |
| XANDER: | You pick, Dawn. This is your night. We are celebrating your mom's good news. |
| ANYA: | (softly) Go monkey. Choose monkey. |
| DAWN: | It's okay. You guys don't have to make a big deal for me. I'm only sleeping over here so Buffy and Riley can boink. |
| XANDER: | No, that's not, that's not it at all, they just need time to, uh... (clears throat) be tender. Relax. |
| ANYA: | He's not very convincing, is he? |
| DAWN: | 'Alone time' always translates into 'get Dawn out of the house so we can have loud obnoxious sex.' |
| ANYA: | (softly to Xander) Oh, does that mean we can't? |
| BUFFY: | I gave Riley the day off. |
| JOYCE: | I don't think he thinks of you as a chore, Buffy. |
| BUFFY: | I know that. Look, I told him to make plans with his friends because I wanted to have you all to myself, okay? Besides, I can see him any time. And I'm sure he'll come over later looking for a little... Bible study! |
| JOYCE: | Well, good. I mean, just as long as the two of you are spending some quality time with ... the lord. |
| BUFFY: | We are. Absolutely. |
| SPIKE: | It's me. |
| BUFFY: | Every time you show up like this, you risk all of your parts, you know that? |
| SPIKE: | I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a good reason. As usual, I'm here to help you, and I - are you naked under there? |
| ANYA: | That's so very humorous. Make fun of the ex-demon! I can just hear you in private. (talks to the chicken foot) 'I dislike that Anya. She's newly human and strangely literal.' |
| WILLOW: | (frowns) Anya, I don't say that. No one says that. No one talks that way. |
| ANYA: | There's nothing wrong with my idea anyway. I've been very good for this store. (frowns) If it wasn't for me, Giles would be a terrified old man staring at a quarterly tax statement and wetting himself. |
| GILES: | I say, that's an exaggeration. |
| ANYA: | Have a nice day! Don't get killed! |
| RILEY: | Would you guys mind clearing out? I need a minute alone with her. |
| ANYA: | A little after-hours hanky-panky in the training room, huh? Boy, Xander and I could tell you some stories... |
| XANDER: | Not now. Let's go, Anya. |
| ANYA: | There's a funny thing with the vaulting horse that you can tr... |
| XANDER: | Anya! |
| ANYA: | What? He started it. |
| XANDER: | I've gotta say something... 'Cause ... I don't think I've made it clear. I'm in love with you. Powerfully, painfully in love. The things you do ... the way you think ... the way you move ... I get excited every time I'm about to see you. You make me feel like I've never felt before in my life. Like a man. I just thought you might wanna know. |
| - | Score |
| 95/100 | A |
A sharply written episode consisting of zero major mistakes. Usually develops characters in a meaningful manner and is a joy to watch on repeat viewings. Near perfect, but not quite there.
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| - | Screencaps |
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| - | Comments (34) |
| 1. | bookwormSep 29, 2006 (Fri) | |
| I don't like the Buffy/Riley-arc in s5 too much (as everybody will have noticed), because it neglects everything which Buffy had done for Riley in s4. she risked her life to save him. and now they built this story about her not being sufficiently invested in the relationship. I don't know, it didn't seem right to me. And I didn't like that they didn't show her having second thoughts on their relationship too, I really wanted to see that, as a matter of fact. But at least, it's over now. |
| 2. | bookwormSep 29, 2006 (Fri) | |
| and thank god, that you posted a new review. I already had brutal withdrawals of lacking buffy-wisdom. |
| 3. | mikejerSep 29, 2006 (Fri) | |
| Keep in mind that Buffy risks her life every day to save people she doesn't know and that she'd do what she did for Riley for any of her other friends. That's the point, Buffy never really thought of Riley as anything more than a boyfriend, which is fine except for the fact that Riley really wanted more than that. Lots of misintentions and miscommunication involved here is what caused all these problems. So I don't believe what Buffy had done for Riley in S4 is undermined by S5 at all. |
| 4. | RickSep 29, 2006 (Fri) | |
| Sorry Mike, I'm leading towards Bookworm on this one. Remember Buffy season 4??? Limerance, limerance, limerance. Her obsession with Riley was obvious. And yes, I acknowledge that this comes with any new relationship, but I think the writers could have done a better job depicting Buffy's detachment from Riley in S5. I agree that she could have been more 'there,' but it was almost done too subtly. I for one never really noticed stark deficiencies in their relationship; nothing that couldn't have been fixed with a good talk anyways. With slaying and a sick mom, Riley should have been more understanding. He, therefore, bears most of the blame for this mess imo, even though I understand his position. In regards to Xander's talk with Buffy, I believe it to be compatible to the preceding opinion. Despite the fact that Riley was being unfair and ridiculous, Buffy needed to chase after Riley. After all, "who cares if it's fair?" What is at stake transcends the issue of reasonableness. She should first save this awesome guy and then punish his understandable childishness. Let me just add....Anya is hilarious in this episode!!! Also, Mike...I was thinking of writing a piece about Buffy's complexity as a character, which I feel will be better suited outside forum discussions. If it's good enough, pending your review, do you think I could submit it to the editorial page when I'm finished (which might be never considering my insanely busy schedule)? |
| 5. | mikejerSep 30, 2006 (Sat) | |
| Hmm. I seemed to recall picking up on a change in their relationship in S5 immediately, even the first time through. I feel this development throughout S5 was very well done. When "Into the Woods" came around, I really wasn't surprised. Although I do believe the two of them could have worked out many of their issues (still no guarantee it would last even then) if Buffy had got to Riley in time. In response to your other question, my answer is yes. If I feel it's good enough (not necessarily meaning I agree with your opinion, of course) and that it fits being in the Editorials section, I would indeed be willing to put it up there. I look forward to reading the paper regardless though. :) |
| 6. | cayayofmSep 30, 2006 (Sat) | |
| I really agree with Mikejer here.While Buffy was all over Riley in season 4, this comes with a new relationship. Let's not forget Buffy was on the rebound. Riley captures her attention and takes her mind away from Angel. She is very into him in season 4, but Buffy is totally different after her enconter with the First slayer in 'Resltess', she mentions this in 'Buffy Vs Dracula' an right away we star seeing some problems. Riley is suprised that Buffy told them about her encounter with Dracula right away. Then we see how it gets to him that Buffy was bitten by Dracula. From 'Real Me' and foward we see that Buffy has a lot going on with her,her focus on slaying, new training, Dawn, and Riley is not her main focus like he used to be in season 4. He picks up this here in 'Real Me', in 'Out of My Mind', 'Family' and so on. While I find the score given by Mikejer a little high, I like this epiosde and agree with the review. |
| 7. | RickSep 30, 2006 (Sat) | |
| Hmmm, I'm going to have to watch early season five again to take a closer look. I agree with most of what you guys are saying in terms of the distance between the two; however, when it comes to laying blame, I tend to do so mostly on Riley for aforementioned reasons. Regardless, thanks cayayofm for the input. Your starting to convince me. |
| 8. | mikejerSep 30, 2006 (Sat) | |
| Just to make myself clear, I'm also of the opinion that most of the problems in the Buffy/Riley relationship are Riley's fault. Buffy's no saint though, she made some mistakes too and I've pointed them out. Overall, though, I certainly agree with you that Riley was much more at fault than Buffy. |
| 9. | cayayofmSep 30, 2006 (Sat) | |
| I think too that Rikey is most to blame for the faults. Buffy was clear with him in "Dommed" of how the relationship could go and that the slayer stuff was a lot to deal with, however, he accepted the challenge. I just wanted to point out that she slowly changed her treatment of Riley, she really pushed him away, but I still think he was wrong in doing what he did and later giving her an ultimatum. I always liked how in Buffy a lot of the times everyone had strong points, no one was wrong or right, in this case they both made mistakes, but they both had strong arguments, and you as a viewer are forced to choose your side. |
| 10. | bookwormOct 2, 2006 (Mon) | |
| I just don't like the story-arc, because it's contradictory to the arc in s.4. in s.4 we were led to believe, that Buffy's total into Riley, and now of the sudden she's not. With the s.4-finale I got my hopes up, that Buffy checks, that she and Riley won't work out because of different opinions on rationality, monster-handling, the "black-and-white" Vs. "shades-of-grey"-stuff, but they had to make this stupid arc, where she doesn't love him enough. I know, that they built it up from minute one of the fifth season, but I don't like how they handled it, and it contradicts s.4. and it leaves Buffy more or less as a victim. |
| 11. | DavoOct 9, 2006 (Mon) | |
| The easiest way to explain Buffy and Riley's relationship is to compare how things would have changed if she had been with Angel, in my opinion. Buffy would have given her all to Angel: he would have been the one comforting her after her mother's illness, giving her advice about her slayer heritage & helping her out with the whole Dawn thing. Riley was unable to do any of those things because Buffy wouldn't let him: he was a convenience to her, the "day off" line in this episode proves that. He provided comfort, but not the emotional support he would have liked to give her. However, none of that excuses his behaviour with the whore-vamps. Buffy's mother was ill, and she was in a really fragile state: the way he acts is incredibly selfish. However, Buffy's lack of concern about her relationship with Riley, the fact she doesn't realise the distance between them, or even look to him as her 'rock' when her mother's ill all signify that she isn't prepared to give her all to him, and that's ultimately what convinces him to leave. |
| 12. | ChebonneDec 2, 2006 (Sat) | |
| I agree with you here, about Riley. I can understand why - but he is really damn stupid about it. I also think that buffy should be angrier with him than she was - I mean, the two-bit vampiren trolls, the ultimatum, the whinging... it's a little too much. I am happy, though, that you mention that fantastic scene between Spike and Riley when Riley stabs him. I love that second before the act-break when Spike's body convulses around the stake and you're convinced the guy is dust. This is also one of the reasons as to why I think that James Marsters is such a great actor; the nuances in his acting here. And when he visibly has to snap himself out of going on about Buffy... aww (even though it's about sex, but 'aww' nevertheless.) But concerning when he says "you're not the long haul guy and you know it" I always took it as Riley not being the long haul guy for Buffy, not Riley being a long haul guy period. I don't know if Spike himself wishes to be that long haul guy (which he in a sense is, because they've been surreptitiously attracted to each other since second season...) but I think he knows at this point that if there is such a thing as a long haul guy for Buffy at this point it would be someone with "a little monster" in him, i.e. Angel. I think he can see that Riley isn't a guy Buffy would consider settling down with, hence the "long haul guy" comment. |
| 13. | TranquillityFeb 19, 2007 (Mon) | |
| I don't mind this episode, lots of nice moments as mentioned in the excellent review. One thing i hate about this episode is Xander's speech to Buffy regarding her relationship with Reilly. Who is Xander to say what Buffy needs, or what she's giving up. I mean Xander is the most clueless guy in the universe and it's crazy that he would suddenly have such 'insight' into Buffy and Reilly. I think it says more about him than Buffy and in a sense he's talking from a selfish point of view, saying well i really admire Reilly and can accept Buffy being with such a guy better than say, an Angel or Spike who he always really resented. That's just my point of view. |
| 14. | LuluAug 26, 2007 (Sun) | |
| I don't support your point of view, Tranquillity, I think Xander thought that Riley was a good boyfriend who can make Buffy happy. I don't see any selfishness in his speech. As for how he came to the insight, Riley had told him that Buffy didn't love him, and after that Xander started to notice how Buffy neglects Riley and how it affects him badly. |
| 15. | WorldWithoutShrimpAug 26, 2007 (Sun) | |
| Also, while Xander is often clueless, this is not the first or last time that he would give insightful speeches. Remember "The Freshman"? I don't see any selfishness in his speech either. And while Xander did resent Angel, I don't think he ever resented Spike, he just didn't like him very much (neither did most people, for that matter). I think Xander thought that it would be possible for Buffy and Riley to work out, and while he realized that what Riley was doing was unfair, he also realized that Buffy would have to do something or otherwise it would be over. Xander does not tell Buffy what she needs or wants, he asks her if what she needs and wants is Riley, and tells her, if so, she will have take action right away. That's my $0.02 on the issue. :-) |
| 16. | AustinAug 29, 2007 (Wed) | |
| I've never understood why Buffy does run after Riley. I don't think either of them where under the delusion that it would ever work between them in the long run. I've thought that she just doesn't want him to leave in that manner, but I have no doubt that it would have ended badly in the end. |
| 17. | AustinAug 29, 2007 (Wed) | |
| Oh yeah, I always thought it was interesting that she didn't tell Riley that she was at the helipad, it is interesting to think what would have happened if he came back single under the same circumstances and he had been beating himself up for leaving her and then they have a big sloppy reunion, of course, that wouldn't have worked on BtVS but it is an interesting prospect. Anyway I admire Buffy's respect and maturity for not bringing that up and I'm really glad she got along with Sam |
| 18. | gabrielleabelleNov 12, 2007 (Mon) | |
| Interesting bit of irony during the Riley/Spike scene (which is awesome, btw). Spike tells Riley he's the lucky one even though he never really "has" Buffy. Just cause he's with her, he's lucky. Spike gets just that in the next season where Buffy uses him for sex and treats him much, much worse than Riley. Personally, when Riley gave Buffy the ultimatum, I was ready for him to leave. Perhaps it's the principle of the thing, but I would never stand that somebody doing that to me. That being said, I did enjoy Xander's talk with Buffy. I don't agree with everything he said to her. But I understand he was coming to her from the "guy" perspective and giving her another point of view. But it's just the fact that they had that moment that I love. I like seeing Xander in the "big brother" role with Buffy. We see that quite a bit more at the beginning of S7. Anyway, I liked Riley in S4. In S5, I was ready for him to leave. I can see his grievances, but I'm on Buffy's side on this one. |
| 19. | BreakAtmoNov 24, 2007 (Sat) | |
| I personally loved Xander's speech in this. I don't find it unrealistic, we've seen this coming since the end of The Replacement. I think it's a classic reminder of how important he is - he may not have super-powers, but he's an empath who loves his friends. Regarding Riley's ultimatum, I took it not as, "Tell me if you love me right now", so much as, "These guys need me, and I feel I should help them, but I won't if there's a reason to stay". The time limit was only due to the fact that the chopper was leaving at midnight - I'm sure if Riley thought he could've convinced them to wait longer, he would have. |
| 20. | buffyholicNov 24, 2007 (Sat) | |
| I just don´t get why Riley gets so upset with the fact that Buffy doesn´t cry around him. That just bugs me but I think that Buffy is to blame too when she says it´s a slayer thing. She always does that, always faces the problems alone. Although I think Buffy made a lot of mistakes as well (and it´s funny because she doesn´t want to face those mistakes), Riley was the one who really blew it. Instead of talking to Buffy in an honest way, he goes arounf being bit by vampires. |
| 21. | NixFeb 3, 2008 (Sun) | |
| As a stylistic note, the slow-intercut-to-departing-person technique used here is pretty much identical to that used when Faith departs at the end of _Who Are You?_. |
| 22. | Plain SimpleFeb 26, 2008 (Tue) | |
| There are two thins that bothered me when I recently watched this episode again. The first is a minor technical thing. The flow of events when Spike discovers Riley's suck jobs is lacking smoothness. We first have the scene where Spike sees Riley leaving Buffy's house for the suck jobs. Next scene is the Buffy-Joyce hospital conversation the next day, then comes the military guys scene where they're discussing about getting Riley back and then suddenly we get Spike standing over Buffy's bed. I feel something is missing there. A bigger point plotwise is the ending of the episode. The turn of events makes it look like the reason Buffy and Riley broke up is because Buffy was one minute too late at the helicopter site. Had she come earlier, everything would have been hunky dory. That seems to disregard everything that came before.and I don't like it. When you carefully build up to this conclusion, then when, in the end, let it depend on such a coincidental thing as being a minute late? |
| 23. | Robbie101Apr 10, 2008 (Thu) | |
| Anyone else jump and whoop for joy when Riley left? |
| 24. | MacugaJul 31, 2008 (Thu) | |
| Does anyone else think that Buffy is dead-on when she accuses Xander of treating Anya like a convenience, after he accuses her of doing the same with Riley? After that, Xander goes back home and grandly proclaims his love for Anya--but I'm not convinced. I think perhaps it took Buffy's harsh remarks to guilt Xander into finally taking Anya seriously. |
| 25. | PaulaJul 31, 2008 (Thu) | |
| And while Xander did resent Angel, I don't think he ever resented Spike, he just didn't like him very much (neither did most people, for that matter). This is something really for the next review (Seeing Red) when it comes, but... I figure Xander pretty much thought (in late S5 and S6) that if there was one guy around who had even less of a chance with Buffy than he himself had (or had ever had), that was definitely Spike. And he downright enjoyed having Spike the Chip Head around for him to ridicule for that very reason. (Remember that while he came to know Spike had a serious crush on Buffy, that's pretty much all he knew before Entropy - unlike, say, Riley, who obviously didn't like to find Buffy sleeping with "that idiot" but was hardly astonished about it, either.) So in late S6 when Xander finds out about Buffy having had an affair with Spike, hello to disappointment in Buffy and her guy standards and to resentment for her not having told him anything, but also to quite a bit of humiliation (which I gather Spike relished). Admirably complicated stuff, as a matter of fact. |
| 26. | ShularAug 29, 2008 (Fri) | |
| "Riley's always wanted a serious relationship with her and was incorrect in assuming she was on the same page as him all this time." Have to disagree with this. Riley KNEW Buffy wasn't on the same page. He was staying with her in the hopes that, eventually, she would get to that page. I, apparently, seem to be a minority of one in having complete sympathy for Riley. Yes, he messed up big-time with the vampire stuff (okay, so he's not perfect...who is?), but as far as I'm concerned his only mistake regarding the relationship was not confronting Buffy earlier with how he felt. But I can understand why that didn't happen. As I said above, he was hoping that Buffy would grow to love and need him on her own. I find it funny that people feel a need to blame someone for the breakup, as if there needs to be a fault somewhere. This is the kind of mentality that results in people stuck in bad relationships. Sometimes it's just not meant to be, and if people worry about being to blame for it not working out, then they'll continue on with the wrong person to avoid feelings of guilt for its failure. Neither Buffy nor Riley are to BLAME for the failure of their relationship. Buffy neither loved nor needed Riley, and would never grow to. Riley realized there was really no point in waiting for something that would never come, but he decided to give it one last hail Mary in confronting her with his feelings. When Buffy ran to try to catch Riley before he left, I don't believe that she'd had some revelation that she loved him, but simply a misguided effort to try to keep things going. Subconciously, she knew Riely was right, and theat's why she was unable to get there in time. |
| 27. | RosieDec 23, 2008 (Tue) | |
| Shular's description of the end of the Buffy/Riley relationship strikes me as being the only one that really makes sense. After all, it takes two to break up a relationship. Riley should have taken the time to make a life for himself outside of Buffy. Then again, perhaps the reason he had failed to do so was that the only life he really wanted was in the military. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. As long as Riley went through life with his eyes opened and without the naivety that Maggie Walsh had exploited in the past . . . he could be on the right track. But Riley tried to make his life all about Buffy (just as Spike would attempt in the next two seasons) and it was a mistake on his part. Even worse, he failed to inform Buffy of his true feelings until it was too late. He had failed to communicate with Buffy. On the other hand, Buffy had been using Riley as rebound from Day One of their relationship. She was not only rebounding from Angel's departure, but also from the idea of a relationship with a supernatural being. And it was a mistake. There is a chance that some part of her had deep feelings for him, but I doubt that it was enough for a long term relationship. But the one thing that really annoyed me was Buffy's habit of treating Riley like fine china, following the operation to remove his physical enhancements in "Out of My Mind". She failed to remember that Riley was an experienced demon hunter, who could help her deal with vampires, demons, etc. a little more effectively than the other Scoobies. It almost seemed as if Buffy was treating Riley with a patriarchal air. And that was a major mistake for a masculine personality such as Riley. Perhaps that was the problem with the pair. Both, in their own way possessed a masculine persona. And instead of a balance between two people, it created conflict in the end. |
| 28. | Scoobasteve83Sep 29, 2009 (Tue) | |
| "The only time Buffy ever hit Angel when they were together was when he was either evil or dying." Well, that's not actually true. In Ats S1 Buffy hits Angel when he refuses to deal with Faith the way she wants it... He was neither dying nor evil at this point. |
| 29. | CirrusNov 5, 2009 (Thu) @ 5:02pm | |
| I have to admit, this episode didn't strike me that much when I first watched it. I would rather skip it straight to Triangle, which I thought was a perfect balance between many elements of the show -- this was just sort of the parts I'm not so fond of.
Plus, I really didn't like Xander here. Not only did he appear at least a little OOC, but he randomly popped out of nowhere once Buffy walked away from Riley in the training room - or at least, that's how it seemed to me... plus, he totally overstated Riley. Plus, didn't Riley sort of cheat? He went to another woman for pleasure. Until Buffy called them whores, I was completely wondering why she didn't just hit him or something. Riley was very unfair of her -- basically putting the blame on her for what he did, and then giving her an ultimatum. At least Angel did it gradually, and was willing to compromise a bit more. I really really don't think this episode was deserving of a near perfect score. Perhaps a B. But then, I was never a fan of Buffy/Riley and thought it got far more focus than was necessary, especially when compared to Buffy/Angel -- which was just as developed, much more interesting, and still didn't take itself so damn seriously. Buffy/Riley lagged on far too long than I enjoyed, though I will admit it was all a rather realistic relationship. The one thing I really liked was the pure "Buffy" (show) moment at the end, where Buffy ran to meet Riley before he went, and was too late. As mentioned by Shular, I don't think it was because she realised her love, either, she just felt like she had to do it. AND she was too late. It was really nice to see, in a totally non-sadistic way...! |
| 30. | MasbrillanteNov 14, 2009 (Sat) @ 9:53am | |
| I guess I just disagree with most people that Riley's "ultimatum" is really unfair. Riley has basically been rotting away in Sunnydale ever since his decision to follow the Scoobies resulted in his discharge from the army. Even though he did the right thing by opting not to follow a morally bankrupt research initiative, he had to sacrifice an entire identity built around the strong military man. There is never any evidence that Riley, personality-wise, is cut out for much else. He was willing to sacrifice all of that the first time for a potential relationship with Buffy, but I think it was fair for him to ask her if he should sacrifice it yet again for her, or if he should just go. The mission in Belize was a once in a lifetime opportunity (I don't think there's any doubt that they wouldn't ask again), as was a potential relationship with Buffy. While his choice came at undoubtedly bad timing, I think he was right to ask Buffy to make a choice to help him make his. Personally, I think that if she were really in love with him she would have had a much stronger reaction. And I think that if she had - cried, screamed, hit him, even condemned him for hurting her when he asked that question - he would have stayed. But she just walked away, proving that he needed to pursue his other option. |
| 31. | Elianne23Dec 1, 2009 (Tue) @ 3:04pm | |
| In response to scoobasteve83 -
Buffy and Angel weren't together (ie. in a relationship) during the Faith episodes of AtS S1. Technically you're right, but their relationship had ended and there was some intense anger that Buffy felt towards Faith for sleeping with Riley. When she saw that Angel was protecting Faith, she just blew - wrongly of course, but that's what she did. |
| 32. | WulvaineDec 3, 2009 (Thu) @ 3:09am | |
| I honestly hate Riley and am not sad to see him go, but this episode would be great for Xander alone. Xander is the glue that holds the Scoobies together, and I strongly disagree with the person who said he was clueless. He has incredibly bad luck, and he has made a lot of mistakes, but he's grown so much. These flashes of insight and moments of true maturity that we see from him on occasion are, in my opinion, glimpses of a truly adult Xander. He's growing up. He'll always maintain his lovable snarkiness and sense of humor, but as the series progresses, he's finding himself and his purpose. He's not just comic relief. Xander, for all his failings, is the heart of the Scooby Gang. He's very intuitive with his friends, and while he isn't superpowered, he's still an essential element. |
| 33. | RandyDec 24, 2009 (Thu) @ 8:36pm | |
| I think Xander was right to lay out the big picture for Buffy (for her own personal growth), but it's a good thing she missed that chopper. Everyone's so quick to blame either Riley or Buffy for the relationship implosion, but really, these two aren't well-suited for each other at all. She needs someone who can keep up with her, and he's a guy who needs to be the alpha dog in a relationship. Even if he got his act together, got back into the military and made a non-Buffycentric life for himself, it was never gonna work. This doesn't make him a bad person; just not the right guy for her. ***Spoiler*** I just finished watching AtS S1 Ep7 where Buffy visits LA and Angel becomes human. Everything's all peachy for them for a little while, but I'm betting in the long run, they would've ended up with a lot of the same issues as Riley/Buffy. And on an unrelated note, for my money, this episode had the coolest vampire ass-kicking scene of the season, and possibly the whole series... |
| 34. | ZapheDec 28, 2009 (Mon) @ 2:37am | |
| I just wanted to say how much I like the scene when Buffy rushed out of the vampire nest after what she saw. Spike ran after her with a hint of glee on his face then when he stopped saw the horror and hurt on Buffy face, the change of his expression from glee to bewilderment is just masterful. Sarah also did a wonderful in this scene and the scene in her bedroom.
After experiencing the wonderful multi-layered acting from JM, SMG and AH in Buffy, now when I watched other shows, I often feel that most of the acting in TV series are just too two-dimensional. Majority of the time, they are just competent and not brilliant. Unlike the ones in Buffy, the actors/ress live in their characters and you can just tell what they are thinking or how they feel just by looking at their faces. I am so spoilt by Buffy. |
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